Never stray from formulas?

[davewalton]

Aug 9, 2008, 10:05am, jkellyjr wrote:I'll say it again: If you're still hanging around Taxi, you're doing it for reasons that have nothing to do with a potential for huge success... At least once a month we get someone who does their best to try to bring us all "back to reality"... We'd like for you to join us, but please don't try to "save" us. Now before you think this post is about you... it's not. I probably would have ignored this but since I fussed at another nice forum member not long ago, I felt I should fuss at you too, just to make things fair. I don't know about lyrics and all that... I only do instrumentals so I can't comment. I do know that things that my family, friends, etc thought were good weren't always that good when held up against the compitition of the world. But some were. I've never been led astray by the collective critiques and suggestions of the forum members and Taxi screeners. One person says something... well... I may or may not pursue their suggestion. Two, three people or more say the same thing (no matter how they say it)... time for me to get to work. HTH,Dave

[liamkelly]

Aug 7, 2008, 2:23pm, jkellyjr wrote:Hi,Perhaps some wouldn't mind weighing in on a songwriting concern I had on one of my critiques. The listener was very nice in tone, so no problem there. But he/she used the "never" word:"Bridges are never needed til after the 2nd chorus where they provide a surprise melodic element to break up the verse/cho veerse/cho repetition. Last 2 verses are best but you need to tighten up the structure. Try dropping the piano break and just doing one chorus there and placing the other after the next verse so you don't end the song with 2 verses."As a Beatles fan, I know they used bridges all over. For example, Sgt. Pepper. Technically, VBCVB into Little Help From My Friends. It's subtle, for sure, but it's a bridging. My song is similar in verse structure: VBC-break-CVB. It was suggested to drop the piano break and use one chorus, which is actually a chorus-refrain. They suggested I not end the song with two verses, but the end isn't on a verse, but I end it on the refrain, so I'm a bit confused by the slavishness to a writing style. If somebody wouldn't mind letting me send them a copy of "This Christmastime," I'd like to know what you think, writing-wise. I fly solo, so I could get by with "A little help from my friends." JkellyjrYou're concerned about the following:'I'm a bit confused by the slavishness to a writing style'I'd be grateful if you could post the listing that you submitted your track to. Perhaps it suggested conventional song structure between the lines. Perhaps not Maybe the 747 comment was just a metaphor for considering an edit and rewrite. And nothing more. Something that us composers/songwriters are constantly doing.Anyway, look forward to the listing Liam

[mojobone]

A link to the song in question is posted in Peer To Peer:clicky-click

[sgs4u]

Yes Kelly, that was me screwing up royally. I owe you an apology.I'm very sorry I wrote things you didn't like. Neither other members here, nor Taxi, deserve the angry or hurt responses, that my comments have caused you. Please try to keep that in mind.Steve

[Mark Kaufman]

Other things to keep in mind:-There are people who post on this forum who are making a good living with their TAXI forwards.-I'm not delusional.-My ballroom joke was stolen from Rodney Dangerfield.-TAXI screeners are not dumb. When they make a statement about bridges like you mentioned, it isn't from a standpoint of blind, dogmatic rules...it's in reference to a very particular style, most likely in regard to the listing. -The hate machine has wormed its way into your own posts. I'm just sayin'.-In my case, when someone gives me a critical smackdown, I find myself becoming more grateful than offended. Why? Because most critiquers are too nice to say what they really think...I end up learning a lot more from the harsh ones, even if I disagree. Those opinions are much more rare than supportive, friendly praise. I also hope you stick around, although the "delusional" idea makes me think you view the whole deal as mostly futile...hopefully a check in the mail someday will alter that viewpoint. On the other hand, I don't think any of us are trying to use TAXI in order to become stars. It's work, that's all.Cheers!-Mark

[jkellyjr]

Steve, thanks for the response. Much appreciated!Anyway, I wouldn't have posted my work had I not expected criticism. I'm a big boy and can take it. I said we're delusional in our dreams, not ignorant in our art. But I don't normally like posting lyrics without the music. I don't even like Bernie's lyrics without Elton's melodies. Come to think of it, I never liked many of his lyrics, anyway, except for the wonderful "Captain Fantastic." I mean, are these really awesome lyrics on their own: "I sat on the roof and kicked off the mossWell a few of the verses well they've got me quite crossBut the sun's been quite kind while I wrote this songIt's for people like you that keep it turned onSo excuse me forgetting but these things I doYou see I've forgotten if they're green or they're blueAnyway the thing is what I really meanYours are the sweetest eyes I've ever seen"Man, he couldn't even remember the color of the sweetest eyes he's ever seen. And this group would be all over that awkward "excuse me forgetting...." I always wondered whether he intended the gerund or he was trying to write elliptically and just dropped the "for."I wouldn't let the responses of family, friends, dogs, etc., cloud my judgment. That rule was learned long ago. Just had a good melody and idea and was hoping to refine it. It all started off pretty innocently, anyway, with the bridge question. I still think the question was good, and I got some helpful responses. So it's all good to me. Thanks. Jelly Honk

[matthoggard]

I was also in journalism in college. After I realized that Journalizm and cynicism are one in the same I decided to change majors. From your posts Id say you are very good at your day job.And with the emotion i detect from your replies, Ill bet your songwriting will be just as emotional. Ive been here a short time. Ive had some responses that I dont agree with but I respect alot of these people and their opinions. If you want other opinions, there are other organizations that will give critiques and helpful advice. Taxi is just another avenue for me to hone my skills.Matt

[jkellyjr]

So don't let the phenomenon of "contempt prior to investigation" stop you, Matt. I do write and sing with much emotion. Myspace.com/jkellyjrI posted the lyrics to "Still Glad" on the board. And this one is hardly about cynicism. (I've grown numb to the pat journalism cliches.)I didn't come to Taxi to hone skills with people I don't know. I just make demos. Melody should be the selling point. If not, I just don't care. I'm 46. I know a guy my age in Dallas that makes a ton o' dough in post-production, so he and his wife can afford to go into the studio to make albums that end up mired on CD Baby making nada. Plenty of people here could do exactly the same if they had 15 grand, or so. Hey, if weekend warrior stuff is what people are into, I'm all for keeping them off the streets. If it's for the pure love of writing a song ex nihilo, then you don't have to join pay sites like Taxi and its $5 submission fee or go into the studio. You who are fairly adroit at production could self-produce and market on the Web. You're 40 now, Matt, and you play well. What validation do you require from anonymous people on an Internet forum? Their opinions, in the end, matter no more than your friends' and co-workers. Maybe less, because songwriters aren't as altruistic as you seem to want to believe. It's fraught with self-doubt and inherent biases. Hell, I only posted USA because I'm a competitive animal and wanted to show the so-called experts here that simple structure is, well, simple. Try writing a sonnet if you want a challenge. Dude, I wrote a headline in haiku form on 1A of the Morning News just to see whether anybody would notice. Only one person did. The moment of execution was glorious, anything afterward just didn't matter. Don't you see? It's just your ego driving the bus. You might disagree with my opinions, but a true journalist respects your right to your opinion. And if you think you're above cynicism, reread the top of your post to me. I didn't have a problem here until some immature poster conjured up memories of 911 with some unfortunate metaphorical imagery. For some reason, people keep wanting to ignore that fact and lecture me about how great it is to be here. Stand tall, Matt. Don't cave in to the "peer-to-peer" pressure. Take care, and good luck!

[sgs4u]

Aug 10, 2008, 11:50am, jkellyjr wrote:I didn't come to Taxi to hone skills with people I don't know. Then why are you here? What brought you here? What will keep you interested?

[davewalton]

Aug 10, 2008, 12:24pm, sgs4u wrote:Aug 10, 2008, 11:50am, jkellyjr wrote:I didn't come to Taxi to hone skills with people I don't know. Then why are you here? What brought you here? What will keep you interested?I'll share with JKellyJr why I'M here and what I've received from the experience. One CAN argue with opinion but no one can argue with experience, or at least with a person about their experience. To be honest, I'm interested in posts about what has happened, experience... not about what one imagines might happen (or not happen).After a 20-year absence from music I decided that my "music career" had unwritten chapters. I stumbled into Taxi somewhat accidentally writing "out of date, out of style" music, the music I left off with 20 years prior. Through the strangers here, the Taxi screeners et al, my music slowly evolved into something current and useful. The reason? I was honest, open minded and willing. Today I am beyond fulfilled regarding musical creativity. I write orchestral, electronic, and ethnic music mostly. I'm venturing into new territories via co-writing with other brilliant (Taxi) musicians. I also make money directly from my music, from deals inside and outside of Taxi. I do this full-time now. I've had more than 200 network television placements from just one Taxi deal. I've had music library and film placements... other deals have come out of those. Outside of Taxi (once I got my music "current" through Taxi) I've found access to listings for film composers. I've scored 14 independent films, currently working on #15. I've done music for TV pilots and travel shows. All from Cape Girardeau Missouri. THIS is where it started... Taxi, the Taxi forum, and the strangers who were professional enough to NOT validate me but to offer their time and professional expertise.So that's my experience. That's what has happened... and I'm not alone, I'm not unique and I'm not the best of what music has to offer. I still ask for help, ask for advice. I am willing to learn... from "strangers". Dave