UPDATE #2: JAZZIN' IT UP!!

[rld]

I heard the Trilogy version, and now this one.I use Trilogy a lot and while your original parts sounded good, I thought it was just too repetitive and some different patterns/lines would have helped to break it up.Kind of the same with this new version. That same aggressive pull note that happens over and over gets a bit tedious and I think you could get away with doing it less and having more variation...like what you've got in the bridge section...that grooves nicely.One of those less is more moments?...

[ibanez468]

Hey RLD!Just wanna’ make a quick point about repetitiveness. Listen ta’ this tune by Santana. But specifically focus on the bass player at around the 3:40 mark. He does this pop thing through the song for quite a bit of time. I realize he’s doin’ some other stuff too, but that pop is always there. For close to 3 minutes he does this. That’s repetitive too. I listen to this today, as old as it is, and I still like what he’s doin, regardless of how many times he does the SAME exact pop, over & over again. Perhaps he’s not doing it as much, but it’s there every time. IMO, for some things that groove, repetition is not a bad thing. I’m just sayin’, if he can do it, why can’t I? As I’ve mentioned before, as a bass player, I’ve heard many a tune that had a repetitive, funky bassline (w/some variations to it as well). I don’t think I’ve ever thought to myself: “That bass riff/guitar riff/synth riff, or whatever, is too repetitive.” I got what they were tryin’ ta’ do. I just rolled with it, and it sounded good.I could come up with some other examples if I really go & do some investigating, but this one was just the first thing ta’ pop up in my mind. Take a listen. Around the 3:40 mark if ya’ really wanna’ get to it. Just tryna’ make a comparison here, that’s all. Bottom line, it is what it is.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE4lXZ2dv14

[rld]

Quote:if he can do it, why can’t I?No biggie, I-man.Just trying to help with my opinion...you certainly can do whatever you want.

[billg]

This is cool! Slapping and popping bass parts are always hard to mix I think, at least they are for me. Man, as bass players we learn early on that bass is really meant to be repetitive, if it isn't there's no "glue". Plus if you go off on a tangent live the drummer will throw sticks at you. I never thought it was fair that they got to have weapons and we didn't . . . although you could probably club someone with an old Fender bass and not really hurt the instrument!I think maybe there is a freq. you can cut that would allow the "pop" to lay better in the mix but it's probably a trial & error thing to get it right, and actually it's cool the way it is too.

[ibanez468]

Apr 5, 2009, 8:34am, rld wrote:Quote:if he can do it, why can’t I?No biggie, I-man.Just trying to help with my opinion...you certainly can do whatever you want. Hey RLD!You're right man, no biggie at all. I DO really appreciate your help & your opinion. Did you listen to the youtube video, and kinda' get where I was comin' from though? My question "if he can do it, why can't I?" wasn't necessarily directed at you, it was just a generalized question. Hey man, I'm not mad atcha'. Ya' gave me what I asked for. Sometimes I feel like I gotta' explain why I did/didn't do one thing or another, just for some justification. Know what I'm sayin'? We ALL got our opinions/observations/$.02 though. But in the end, there's only one person's (screener ) that matters. I can roll wit it!ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Apr 5, 2009, 9:20am, billg wrote:This is cool! Slapping and popping bass parts are always hard to mix I think, at least they are for me. Man, as bass players we learn early on that bass is really meant to be repetitive, if it isn't there's no "glue".Hey Billg! Thanks for respondin'. Sometimes dude, I think you're only one of a few that actually "GETS" me. Quote:I think maybe there is a freq. you can cut that would allow the "pop" to lay better in the mix but it's probably a trial & error thing to get it right, and actually it's cool the way it is too.Yeah, it is a bit harsh, aint it? I'll try doin' some more tinkerin' around, and see if I can't mellow it all out a bit more. Thanks for listenin' & respondin' dude. 'Preciate it!ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Well, here are some of the results to my return (which I had already suspected was gonna’ happen) of the “original” Savoir-Faire & another tune I sent along with it.Title: Savoir-Faire “the bass part is impressive but crowds the melody... the piano and bass are not playing the music... again the drums sound too stiff... some good lines but obscured by the busy bass and percussion...”OK, understood. Don’t quite get the “piano & bass are not playing the music” statement. Majority of drumming comes from EZ Drummer midi loops & fills, etc. But overall, I get it. I’m cool with that!Overall Commentsbruce,hello. thanks for sending in the music. the fusion tracks showcase some good writing and playing, but conceptually the music doesn't impact well because of the overflow of information in a single piece of music. to broaden the scope of what your doing, try scaling back a little and focus more on the piano voice to create more intimacy and drama. the secret of your sound may lie with a trio playing the same music emphasizing a concept driven by dynamics and performance to bring out the passion behind the music.The main reason(s) you were or were not forwarded for this listing is:the music is over orchestrated and not featuring the piano enoughOne thing I did notice in the critique, was that screener never touched on being “too repetitive” with that bass line. Just “too busy”. So, to me, that meant that I could’ve come up with several different variations of that bass line, and it still would’ve been “too busy”. And several of you were right in the beginning about your assessment of it being “too busy” in the first place. Not that I totally disagreed with ya’, but I’m certain I’ve heard music and a style like this before. I still think screener kinda’ got where I was comin’ from with it though, based on his/her comments. But that’s neither here nor there.Hey, it’s all good! I gambled & lost. It wasn’t a fit from the get go. I still like it though, and I’ll just hafta’ get in there at some later date and do the modifications. There’s still one other listing that’s pending. Perhaps it’ll be a better fit for that one. Perhaps not. As for now, I can live with the screener’s comments. They weren’t as bad as I thought they were going to be. Thanks for all of the feedback everyone! I’ve documented all of your suggestions for future revisions. ‘Preciate it. Time ta’ move on.ibanez468

[greatmoves]

You really seem hellbent on keeping the bass line the way it is. I listened to the youtube clip. your songs bass-part IMO does not parallel the youtube one. Look at where you song sits in the mix. their guy is playing through the whole piece, You are playing a loop, which deprives you from being interactive and spontaneous. IMO the bass style you used is NOT the best for this song. You have been hemming and hawing so long about this song, you could have just re-recorded it (bass line) from scratch and been done with it. have you tried listening to your song without the bass line and let the song send you in the right direction? Also, try doing a midi version of the bass part, then you can tryout different bass-voices.It's is so amateur that you as a question "if he can do it, why can't I?".... answer... it's SANTANA and they're really playing the song, no loops. That's like Saying, " If Micheal Jackson can release the piece of crap named "Butterflies" then you can release some of your crap you have been holding onto. NO YOU CANT. You don't have a history and you must hit the scene with GREAT stuff, not below par good stuff. You told me you are a bass player, now tell me did you play the the other parts also? Sounds to me that you are a little bruised because most people are not very impressed with the bass line and thats your instrument, so you are going to fight to the end. Thumping or fingering the bass is a preference, let the song choose what's appropriate don't force the parts, they should play nicely together.GreatmovesBB

[ibanez468]

Apr 6, 2009, 7:16pm, greatmoves wrote:I listened to the youtube clip. your songs bass-part IMO does not parallel the youtube one.Didn't say it did. I just mentioned to note the comparison of the "repetitiveness" of what he was playing at that point. I was strictly focusing on the "popping" sound and it's reptitiveness with every line that he played. Quote:their guy is playing through the whole piece, You are playing a loop, which deprives you from being interactive and spontaneous. IMO the bass style you used is NOT the best for this song. Did you listen to the second version? I'm not playing a loop, I'm playin' for real. Quote:You have been hemming and hawing so long about this song, you could have just re-recorded it (bass line) from scratch and been done with it.I did. Are you reading & comprehending any of the posts that have been written here greatmoves? 'Cause you just seem ta' be soundin' off without getting & understanding any of the facts first! Make sure you do some reading first (if you can) before you comment. Quote:have you tried listening to your song without the bass line and let the song send you in the right direction? Also, try doing a midi version of the bass part, then you can tryout different bass-voices.Nope. The song was written around the bassline, cause that's what came first. The bassline started the whole thing sir. The first version of the song "is" a midi version sir. You still gotta' get your facts straight moves. Quote:It's is so amateur that you as a question "if he can do it, why can't I?".... answer... it's SANTANA and they're really playing the song, no loops. That's like Saying, " If Micheal Jackson can release the piece of crap named "Butterflies" then you can release some of your crap you have been holding onto. NO YOU CANT. You don't have a history and you must hit the scene with GREAT stuff, not below par good stuff. Quote:You told me you are a bass player, now tell me did you play the the other parts also?I did. And? What's the point?Quote:Sounds to me that you are a little bruised because most people are not very impressed with the bass line and thats your instrument, so you are going to fight to the end.Nope. Not at all. Everyone has their opinion, just like you. And everyone here has responded tactfully, and I have tried to respond back tactfully. There's no fight goin' on moves! The only person here that seems to want a fight, is YOU! Quote:Thumping or fingering the bass is a preference, let the song choose what's appropriate don't force the parts, they should play nicely together.Exactly! Thumping & popping is preference, and that's what I chose to do with this particular song. What you can do for me greatmoves, is you can write me a bass part that you think would be appropriate for this tune. Download the tune or whatever, and then write me a bass part that "YOU" think would be appropriate for this tune. Then, send it to me, and I'll re-do it just for you. OK? Secondly, why don't you post some of your work on here so I can learn from you? That would help me out a great deal. Since I'm not doin' things the right way, then you can teach me your way. Fair enuff? I'll be waiting to hear from you on both counts.ibanez468

[mazz]

Bruce,I still think the bassline is too repetitive (and also maybe a bit too busy) for the style of song you're doing. Granted, there's probably plenty of examples of looping basslines out there in this style, but I think that you may have tried to be too precise in your repetitions of the riff that you are playing. For me, the riff is too short to bear that much repetition. I think a longer phrase and maybe even a change of accent when you go to the IV chord would really serve to give the part some needed variation and would allow the other parts to "breathe" a bit more.RE: The screener's comment about "not playing the music". Maybe what they meant was that the music (the composition/song) is there but they (piano and bass) aren't really playing it. I think that greatmoves has a point in that the song will tell you what the right lines are that it needs to express itself the fullest. It sounds a bit esoteric but I think you get it (I hope you do!!).Anyway, I'm only harping on this stuff because I think you are on the cusp of going to the next level and really stepping back and looking at this stuff in this way and letting go of ideas of what it should be and letting the music tell you what it should be is a great thing to practice. It's the Zen of composition and it's a lifetime process. I would hope that you will put me through the same ringer!!Keep going and keep cutting through the layers of what "should be". I'm right there with you!!Mazz