Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

We're putting YOU in the drivers seat!

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

matto
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 3320
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:02 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by matto » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:46 am

Quote:I know it's important to put your very best foot forward when you have a chance to do your dance, but I let my endless struggle for perfection keep me from participating in life for too long and I'm trying to be more confident in my approach these days. However, that shouldn't come at the expense of shooting yourself in the foot (especially when you've already blown the other one off long ago), so thanks for the reminder. Yeah...my thinking is always: If you think you might get your foot in the door somewhere...make sure there's a steel-toed boot on it... Quote:Looking forward to meeting you at the Rally, Matt.Likewise

andreh
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by andreh » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:55 pm

Thank you all for the motivational sentiments. I, too, believe this song has the potential to be great, and I feel good that I'm not letting my ego get in the way of me learning from all this awesome feedback.Now to find a superb singer for the demo (when the song's ready for it)...any recommendations?Andre
The greatest risk in life is risking nothing.

User avatar
michael11
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1414
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:51 pm
Gender: Male
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by michael11 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:38 pm

Quote:Thank you all for the motivational sentiments. I, too, believe this song has the potential to be great, and I feel good that I'm not letting my ego get in the way of me learning from all this awesome feedback.Now to find a superb singer for the demo (when the song's ready for it)...any recommendations?AndreWhat about Vikki?
All's Well That Ends Well



www.michaelgaughan.rocks

User avatar
Casey H
King of the World
King of the World
Posts: 12319
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by Casey H » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:25 am

Quote:Thank you all for the motivational sentiments. I, too, believe this song has the potential to be great, and I feel good that I'm not letting my ego get in the way of me learning from all this awesome feedback.Now to find a superb singer for the demo (when the song's ready for it)...any recommendations?AndreYes, Josh Groban.... LOL BTW, I hope you didn't think I meant you were a bad singer... not at all... I just said that on this track, if it was film/TV, the vocal wasn't quite there yet. Casey

matto
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 3320
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:02 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by matto » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:03 pm

Hehee I think you might've gotten a tad carried away there horace... 1- First of all I don't think this is an "incredible" and "tremendous" song, and most everybody else seems to agree. I think it's a good song, with the potential to be great if worked on. Andre seems to realize that, and good for him. I wouldn't have expected anything less from a consummate professional. 2- This listing expressly states "demo quality okay", and I think Andre's vocal would've been good enough for a forward, had the song itself measured up to the high high bar set by the listing party. Having said that, a better singer could only help, which brings us to:3- Could you show me where in the Taxi literature it says that it's okay, or a good idea, to use a weak singer on a demo? Cause I've certainly never read that anywhere. What I've heard on this subject from Taxi, and any other professional source, is always: use the best singer you can afford, and don't sing your own demos unless you can REALLY do the song justice. Now it's okay to sing it yourself for early demos, to get feedback from peers or critiquing services, but to present it to the industry, once it's ready for that, you need sombody who can really SELL the song. The vocal is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a demo. Saying you shouldn't have to have a great vocal on a demo is like saying you should be able to show up in ratty, stinky old clothes when going to a job interview. Not many companies are gonna hire you if you do that, even if you tell them you don't have anything better to wear or can't afford to rent a nice outfit.It may not be fair...but it's just business. This is too...the music business.matto

User avatar
Casey H
King of the World
King of the World
Posts: 12319
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by Casey H » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:54 pm

Quote:...2- This listing expressly states "demo quality okay", and I think Andre's vocal would've been good enough for a forward, had the song itself measured up to the high high bar set by the listing party... mattoIt seems we are in violent AGREEMENT here. Matto and I both said that the vocal on the demo would probably have been good enough for a forward!! ...if the song was an absolute killer. In this case, a better vocal could have only helped, but the song wasn't strong enough for this listing which used the phrases "A&R exec", "very well written", and "hit songs".Now, in support of what Matto said, people have to understand the industry as it is today. No one is going to use their imagination when listening. Home recording, home studios and professional demo singers/musicians are relatively inexpensive and available. It either sounds right or it doesn't and that includes the quality of the recording and performance. There is another thread I created on the boards called "empathy". It's about my other life where I do music placement for other artists. I had put out a lead asking for songs for a 17 year old female pop/rock artist a la Ashlee Simpson, Gwen Stefani, etc... Some people sent me male rock or pop songs, not sounding at all like those artists, with statements like, "I can really visualize a female pop arrangement for this song."Now I know the above is a steeeetttttcccchhhh analogy for this situation, but in my mind it falls under the same umbrella. Casey

andreh
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by andreh » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:56 pm

Wayow, awl this hubbub o'er lil' ol' may... Horace, I'm truly flattered that you feel so strongly about my song; it's nice to know that the power and emotion I was trying to get across in it are coming through despite it flaws. I do think that the chorus needs to be more prominent, though, so I understand why it wasn't forwarded (hope you don't quit Taxi ).As for its good-to-excellent-but-not-quite-perfect vocal track, like you I hope that a very good vocal performance would be enough to have a clear hit song forwarded for a "songs for an artist" listing (especially one that says "demo quality okay"), and I think Matto's right that the song probably would've been forwarded if the vocal track were the only thing "wrong."However, I also agree with others that just because a song is a demo doesn't mean it should sound like a demo...even if the listener knows it's not "final," any flaws in a song will detract from the listener's opinion about it. With so many flawless songs being pitched, we can't afford not to make a perfect first impression.To be honest, I was initially surprised when the song wasn't forwarded...but that was before I had a chance to step outside my creative world for awhile and see things more like they really are. It can be hard for all of us to be objective at times, especially when our musical passion and creativity are coming to a boil during the writing process. I'm glad now, though, because I have a chance to hone the song to a finer point before it's heard by the final decision makers.Besides, Josh Groban wouldn't be signing this tune if I'd gotten it forwarded to the listing party! Andre
The greatest risk in life is risking nothing.

andreh
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by andreh » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:01 pm

Quote:Quote:Thank you all for the motivational sentiments. I, too, believe this song has the potential to be great, and I feel good that I'm not letting my ego get in the way of me learning from all this awesome feedback.Now to find a superb singer for the demo (when the song's ready for it)...any recommendations?AndreWhat about Vikki? I'd love to hear Vikki sing on this...but I'm not sure that would help in our efforts to sound as much like the target artist as possible.
The greatest risk in life is risking nothing.

matto
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 3320
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:02 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by matto » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:42 am

Quote:Sometimes the gap between perceived reality and presumed reality in the music business still bumps me, but I adjust, even if I make noises when hit in the ribs. And please continue to do so. I believe posts like yours and the discussion they generate probably help a lot of lurkers on this board come to better terms with the realities of the music business. And I think that's one of the great things of this forum, that we can use it to help educate each other about (and help each other cope with) those realities.

User avatar
michael11
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1414
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:51 pm
Gender: Male
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

Post by michael11 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:03 pm

Quote:Quote:What about Vikki? I'd love to hear Vikki sing on this...but I'm not sure that would help in our efforts to sound as much like the target artist as possible. I just thought it might be nice to get a classically trained singer to give you some pointers.I think Ave Maria has successfully crossed the gender barrier and maybe some in between that we don't know about. Mick.
All's Well That Ends Well



www.michaelgaughan.rocks

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ResonantTone, Susanstunes and 1 guest