WIP - 'No Enemy' Update - NEW Words -you guys are top!

[AndrewCavanagh]

What I was really trying to do was to get you to communicate the essence of what you say in a way that is more clear and evokes more emotional response in your listener.

It doesn't matter so much what you decide to say as long as it genuinely means something to your listeners and you say it well.

The questions were just meant to get you to think of ideas you like that might improve the lyric.

[sedge]

Thanks again Andrew for the time to comment/reply, really appreciate it.

It doesn't matter so much what you decide to say as long as it genuinely means something to your listeners and you say it well.

of course, we are all songwriters here. Hoping I had managed that ok with these words this time. : ( O

Jus probing to learn more why you felt the need to instruct this this for these lyrics, so I can improve, or why they make sense/genuinely mean something to others but not to you etc .. , might answer some subjective screener type questions! I enjoy the challenge to open up all views, reach a bit wider, good fun.

Saying (essentially) "to be a songwriter you have to write good lyrics and sing them well" is great, cool, sure, but I don't know how to take that as a response and crit of this tune.

What exactly in these lyrics sparked you to think I should need to hear that etc.

Be cool if you send us a link or post some of your lyrics up? seeing your style will no doubt turn on my light! Learning by example on the subjective stuff Is probably easier.

[sedge]

The questions were just meant to get you to think of ideas you like that might improve the lyric.

Good stuff, I can and do appreciate that! I like your patience too, just trying to hone in on what doesn't make sense/mean something to you. Your songwriting tips are very welcome, appreciated for general chat, just not really helping me see what doesn't work for you on this tune.

Kinda like me saying on a Guitar track someone posts.

"To play good guitar you have to make sure you push the fret down good and true" - he knows that and I know he knows that.

But saying " I heard some fret buz at 1:20" is something he can fix. See where I am coming from?

sorry to be a pain, appreciate the time always!

[AndrewCavanagh]

First of all everything is subjective and of all the things you can critique lyrics will almost always get you in the most trouble with an artist because there's an understandable tendency to become very defensive about your lyrics (they are usually the element of the song you have the most emotional energy invested in).

Most musicians are quite happy to talk about a note that might be off, an effect on the guitar, part of a melody that might be improved.

We will pore over every note, every effect, etc etc etc trying to get it perfect.

But when it comes to the most important elements of the song...the parts that actually communicate with our listeners...do we pay the same kind of attention to it?

Put another way a good lyricist would consider every word and phrase in the lyrics crucial and might spend a week or two finding the perfect word or phrase to make just one line in a verse work perfectly.

My own personal guideline is to work at a lyric until I can't make it any better...just different (better is obviously subjective but it's not THAT subjective...you can make some pretty obvious improvements to most lyrics).


You do seem to be genuine about wanting to understand how to improve the lyrics in this song.

I could post some of the lyrics from songs I have written but I don't think that would help you a whole lot.

You could look at any of the lyrics in any of the songs in the report in my signature and you should get the same message but it can be hard sometimes to compare what you see in other songs to what is in a song that you're emotionally attached to.

I will offer to help you rewrite the lyrics right here on the forum as an open exercise that everyone can see.

I think that would be valuable to everyone and you could see if I really had any idea of what I was doing and whether my suggestions could genuinely help you build something really special.



My first starting tips:

# 1: Song concept is everything.

If the song is about "heading home" then that needs to be the emotional payoff at the end of the song.

In this case it seems you've decided you're heading home at the end of the song.

The stronger the ending delivers this message in a way that means something emotionally to your listener the stronger the song is likely to be.

Everything leads to the ending of the song.


# 2: Your first verse needs to start setting up the ending.

In other words introduce the situation or idea that might lead you coming to the conclusion that you're heading home.

It has to be clear, it has to evoke emotions in some way and you need to start setting up the ending.


# 3: More specific words and phrases are more powerful.

Look for color in your lyrics.

By asking what home means to you and images, ideas, feelings, etc that might be the opposite of home to you you're more likely to come up with really powerful lyrics.


I'm happy to talk more specifically if you'd like to go through this process of seeing if we can rework the lyrics openly on the forum.

[sedge]

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[AndrewCavanagh]

You said:

"To debate your concepts of what lyrics must have,
There are at least 2 songs off the top of my head that
use "home" in the concept used here, without the verse
introductions, set ups for the endings payoffs, as you
suggest "Where ever I lay my hat",

Let's take a look at that song.


# 1: Song concept is everything.

Wherever I lay my hat that's my home

The song concept is about a guy who has no fixed home...he
just keeps moving from one woman to the other.

The first verse sets up this concept very nicely:

By the look in your eye I can tell you're gonna cry.
Is it over me?
If it is, save your tears
for I'm not worth it, you see.
For I'm the type of boy who is always on the roam,
wherever I lay my hat that's my home,


The lyrics don't say a whole lot new from verse to verse
but they do increase in emotional intensity with the bridge
clearly more intense than the opening verse:

Oh, you keep telling me, you keep telling me I'm your man.
What do I have to do to make you understand?
For I'm the type of guy who gives girl the eye,
everybody knows.
But I love them and I leave them,
break their hearts and deceive them everywhere I go.
Don't you know that I'm the type of man who is always on the roam,
wherever I lay my hat that's my home.


Also notice that everything in the song points to the song concept.

It's very clear what he's saying.

You could sit across the table from someone you didn't know and read
these lyrics out and they would know exactly what you were talking about.

They would also get a definite emotional reaction depending on who you were
talking to (a woman who has been jilted might have a completely different
emotional reaction to a guy who is a player for example).


Even though it's not an example of enormously colorful lyrics the lyrics also have
some color with words like deceive, roam, love them and I leave them, I'm not worth it etc.


It's good that you're asking questions and comparing what I say to songs
that have been successful.



Again using your example of Wherever I Lay My Hat
compare this opening lyric:

Hey future, what's the tale to be?
Hello past, how's the history, the memories?
what was my energy?

to this opening lyric:

By the look in your eye I can tell you're gonna cry.
Is it over me?
If it is, save your tears
for I'm not worth it, you see.


Notice how in the second lyric right from the first line
we see very strong emotion.

It's very personal and specific.

The idea of someone about to cry is emotionally evocative.

We're also drawn into the story.

Why does the singer say "I'm not worth it"?

What's wrong with him that would make him say that?

We have to listen to the next line.


Can you rewrite the first lines of your first verse to both
draw your listener in and appeal to their emotions?



I'm reluctant to talk about my own songwriting here because this thread should
be about making your song the best it can be.

But I do understand the question so I'll post the lyrics from three of my songs right
here off the top of my head:

Sex Appeal
copyright Andrew Cavanagh

If you want to turn it on like Marilyn Munroe
Sizzle like the superstars you watch on video
You don't need those Betty Davis eyes
Just paint your lips, swing your hips
And dance like a butterfly

Chorus:
If you want sex
If you want sex
If you want sex appeal
If you want sex
If you want sex
If you want sex appeal

Talk a little dirty and purr low like a cat
While you bat your eyes that's guaranteed to blow his thermostat
Slide into that satin dress and be sure to tie it tight
Stroke his hips with your fingertips
when you're close to him tonight
to chorus



Caddilacs And Steel Guitars
copyright Andrew Cavanagh and Andrew Smith

Verse 1:
She served me my chilli tobasco and gin
As I plugged in my Gibson they yelled "let her sing"
When I started strumming
I could not believe my ears
She had a voice like an angel
A pack of winstons and a beer

Chorus:
Caddilacs and steel guitars
Swimming pools and rising stars
Pour your heart out on the stage
Drown your soul at the bar
Will I be the one she dreams of when the night's too long
Or will she leave me at the station like an old country song

Verse 2:
She's on the road now with a manager named Bart
She made 93 on the top 40 chart
But with all those overnighters
And all those sleazy dives
You can't recognize the face
On the CDs she signs

to chorus

Verse 3:
I stir from my slumber phone buzzing in my ears
She's calling from Reno voice trembling in tears
I said "jump on that red eye and come on back home"
But she can't decide what to do
She's so confused and alone

Bridge:
So now I'm standing at the station
my heart's beneath the wheel
A suitcase filled with my affection
A thousand miles of steel
And if that midnight train don't bring me
some loving and good news
then this old country song I'm singing
Is gonna be the blues

to chorus with key change


The Magic Of Being With You
copyright Andrew Cavanagh

Verse 1:
All for one and one for all
Love can strike you down like a cannonball
I'm just a burning fort you've overthrown
You cut me deep like a sword into a stone
I'm enchanted through and through
And that's the magic
The magic of being with you

Verse 2:
Well you might think that you're immune to this
But you can change your life with just one kiss
Don't waste a thought on the things we haven't got
Take my hand and dream of Camelot
Girl there's nothing we can't do
And that's the magic
The magic of being with you

Bridge:
I'm not the prince of hearts
I'm just a king of thieves
Please fair maiden grant me this reprieve
My armor's rusty but my heart is true
And I would gladly sell my soul if I could be with you

to verse 1





I could post song after song here but this thread is about your song and
regardless of what song I post you're going to come to incorrect assumptions
about my songwriting.

The songs above are all in different styles...the first is disco written for
a female performer, the second is country written for a typical male artist with
a narrow range and the third is pop written for a male artist with a huge
voice range.

They're all trying to achieve different
things in different ways.



Again I'd rather we kept the focus in this thread where it should be: on your song.

[sedge]

* removed - not necessary *

[AndrewCavanagh]

The offer to work openly on a forum on a rewrite was just a novel idea I had that might be fun.

I wasn't trying to get or make any kind of deal.

I really don't have any emotional energy invested in your song or any agenda.

I don't have any service to offer I'm just genuinely trying to be helpful.

It's been quite a few years since I've had to worry about money or income so there
won't be any song critiquing service or songwriting coaching or anything along those
lines coming (I've been around forums long enough to know that's the kind of
garbage you expect to find from people so I understand any misgivings you might
have in that area).

I attempted unsuccessfully to give you some very specific ideas on how to change or improve your lyrics yourself
avoiding suggesting lyrics myself because I know that would in a sense constitute
the kind of co-writing anyone would be sensitive about.

So I apologize if I've caused any offense just by trying to be genuinely helpful.

I truly do understand where you're coming from and I wish you well and I haven't
taken any offense from anything you've written here.



Ultimately you'll take the song in whatever direction you choose to and I think it's wonderful
that you're happy with the lyrics you've written.

There are few things better than having a song you're truly happy with.

I appreciate that you love your song and I wish you all the best of success with it.

Here's hoping it becomes everything you hope it can become.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[sedge]

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[cameron]

Sedge, on first listen this song didn't knock me out. Somehow it seemed a bit meandering without a real strong chorus. After the song ended though I kept hearing it in my head, and I realized that this might actually be a very good film/TV song, so I went back and listened again. Your performance is just organic and offbeat enough to make it quite appealing in the right setting.

The song definitely has legs.

Cam