Is "Good Enough" Good Enough?

[wta]

pb I hear what your saying but talent and money are a small part to the picture otherwise record labels wouldn't be crashing and burning in today's market. I found that "good enough" is not good enough, you've got to have something timely and amazing with the right personalities and the time to build the listenership, its people who decide what they're going to spend their money and THATS the secret to making music... Putting together what LOTS of people with spend there money on. Just at ground roots level you got 5 guys who gotta make an income. $40 000 a year is only decent and if you have NO ONE ELSE to pay you've got to raise $200 000 a year, NET and even at gross you have to move 20 000 albums at $10. There's your bottom line, you need 5 guys to 'partner' to get this happening and they have to agree to loose money before you can make it. It'll take 5 years if you're good and can hold the band/production team/business partners together while you're building your clientel/listenership.... Anyway, thats not about licensing which is what taxi and this forum is all about so I'll leave it at dat... Cheers...

[simonparker]

Aug 29, 2009, 6:03pm, pb wrote:OK, so, I'm reading the TAXI Custom Critique with all it's standards and preferences for melody, lyric, structure, etc...etc..... I can't help but ask why TAXI, I mean, with all the years and information TAXI and it's full time members have accumulated from the needs and wants of Maj. labels, can't become a hit making machine itself....Here, it's really not about formula because formula is what the movers and shakers of the industry already know and have. It's what they preach every day. Interesting point. I think TAXI for the same reason that Warner Chappell and Cherry Lane and Universal and all the big publishers have problems placing songs. There's just so much material out there that is styled as the current "sound"/"hit". Rhianna will get 500 songs from all the publsihers probably all sounding similar and all melodically and lyrically sound. Doesn't mean any of them will get cut for her record. She might want to write/co-write on every song.Likewise with Taxi, the songwriters here who have their chops in order are going to face a similar problem. Their song will get forwarded to the label/listing (provided the screener thinks it's good enough), and then it will sit in the pile of the other 500 songs sent to Rhianna.It's all about gatekeepers and of course the artist. If it does get past the gatekeepers, the artist might not want to cut the track. And even if the artist loves the track, it might not make it to the album if the A&R suits take a listen to it, and decides to use another track recorded during the recording sessions.

[toddt]

Simon you're right to a point - which is why nobody's interested in forwarding album fillers. You "just" need to write an undeniable hit song, such as Umbrella...

[markjsmith]

Going back to Jason Blume, I attended his seminar at the last road rally, absolutely made me rethink my approach to melody! He gave great tools for all in attendace to use, and was very charming and entertaining as well! If he's there I will definitely be attending any of his seminars!-Mark

[BraveNote]

The question here is, IS GOOD ENOUGH, GOOD ENOUGH? I know I went off on a rant. Sorry everybody.If the money's good enough, the music's good enough IMO. Not the other way around. They won't have me chasing a carrot and a stick. I remind myself that by getting caught up in the "biz", architecture, strategy and pursuit of making a living from my music, something very essential to the aesthetics of music itself gets lost. So, I refuse to make compromises. [That's not to say I refuse to "succeed".]Competition doesn't make for great song crafting skills, inspired melodies, magnificent movie cues and scores. I never once believed that in spite of the odds that appear to favor that concept. I do believe however that, hard work and a little luck and magic will take you a lot closer to your goals and dreams.Anyone here feel that they're privileged and have natural entitlements for success for their music and songs? Here you have suits that can't play instruments who pontificate to those who have the talents and skills. Theirs is such an awesome responsibility for picking and choosing who gets signed and when. (Heaven forbid they should lose their position with the firm (RC) if they pick the wrong song at the wrong time and it flops) Many poor musicians get left out in the rain. Or worse, end up living under the freeway bridge because they were convinced that you had to make music your life-style and focus your waking hours on the craft of songwriting and not wasting your time working in a sweaty factory warehouse.I believe it can be "good enough" however, to tip the scales of a song or music cue toward broad commercial acceptance, but someone has to flip the bill. At the end of the day, in front of the polished, smoked glass, board room table, good enough gets determined. A lot has to happen before the CD gets placed on that table and begins it's journey toward fame and fortune while all the others who competed for that spot on the table fade away.Or, am I to believe that, after the CD gets passed around often and long enough, a particular familiarity with the music/artist/composer/writer convinces the guy who's responsible for signing artists, that it's a no-brainer and has to be a winner. A hit! Scenario; "He's such a great guy. (or girl) Always polite. Very astute and well-informed. Knows a lot of key people in the biz. Very punctual. Always available and not too pushy. Dependable. Everybody likes him/her and is well respected in the offices and at the local bar and lounge, says all the right things at all the right times etc..etc.. We need to sign an artist by tonite. I think this is the one even though I've never heard the material. Must be good enough."

[hummingbird]

Aug 30, 2009, 10:24am, pb wrote:Scenario; "He's such a great guy. (or girl) Always polite. Very astute and well-informed. Knows a lot of key people in the biz. Very punctual. Always available and not too pushy. Dependable. Everybody likes him/her and is well respected in the offices and at the local bar and lounge, says all the right things at all the right times etc..etc.. We need to sign an artist by tonite. I think this is the one even though I've never heard the material. Must be good enough."More than that: this artist is already touring successfully and selling out, this artist is selling a significant amount of units, this artist has a strong on-line presence, this artist has a great marketable image - I think he'd be willing to partner with us in growing his career, I think we'd get a good return on the thousands of dollars we'll invest in him. Oh, and also, his songwriting chops, musical skills and vocal abilities are top notch.

[wta]

Aug 30, 2009, 11:12am, hummingbird wrote:Aug 30, 2009, 10:24am, pb wrote:Scenario; "He's such a great guy. (or girl) Always polite. Very astute and well-informed. Knows a lot of key people in the biz. Very punctual. Always available and not too pushy. Dependable. Everybody likes him/her and is well respected in the offices and at the local bar and lounge, says all the right things at all the right times etc..etc.. We need to sign an artist by tonite. I think this is the one even though I've never heard the material. Must be good enough." Hey!!! I was gonna say that... More than that: this artist is already touring successfully and selling out, this artist is selling a significant amount of units, this artist has a strong on-line presence, this artist has a great marketable image - I think he'd be willing to partner with us in growing his career, I think we'd get a good return on the thousands of dollars we'll invest in him. Oh, and also, his songwriting chops, musical skills and vocal abilities are top notch.

[toddt]

Aug 30, 2009, 10:24am, pb wrote:The question here is, IS GOOD ENOUGH, GOOD ENOUGH? I know I went off on a rant. Sorry everybody.If the money's good enough, the music's good enough IMO. Not the other way around. They won't have me chasing a carrot and a stick. I remind myself that by getting caught up in the "biz", architecture, strategy and pursuit of making a living from my music, something very essential to the aesthetics of music itself gets lost. So, I refuse to make compromises. [That's not to say I refuse to "succeed".]Competition doesn't make for great song crafting skills, inspired melodies, magnificent movie cues and scores. I never once believed that in spite of the odds that appear to favor that concept. I do believe however that, hard work and a little luck and magic will take you a lot closer to your goals and dreams.Anyone here feel that they're privileged and have natural entitlements for success for their music and songs? Here you have suits that can't play instruments who pontificate to those who have the talents and skills. Theirs is such an awesome responsibility for picking and choosing who gets signed and when. (Heaven forbid they should lose their position with the firm (RC) if they pick the wrong song at the wrong time and it flops) Many poor musicians get left out in the rain. Or worse, end up living under the freeway bridge because they were convinced that you had to make music your life-style and focus your waking hours on the craft of songwriting and not wasting your time working in a sweaty factory warehouse.I believe it can be "good enough" however, to tip the scales of a song or music cue toward broad commercial acceptance, but someone has to flip the bill. At the end of the day, in front of the polished, smoked glass, board room table, good enough gets determined. A lot has to happen before the CD gets placed on that table and begins it's journey toward fame and fortune while all the others who competed for that spot on the table fade away.Or, am I to believe that, after the CD gets passed around often and long enough, a particular familiarity with the music/artist/composer/writer convinces the guy who's responsible for signing artists, that it's a no-brainer and has to be a winner. A hit! Scenario; "He's such a great guy. (or girl) Always polite. Very astute and well-informed. Knows a lot of key people in the biz. Very punctual. Always available and not too pushy. Dependable. Everybody likes him/her and is well respected in the offices and at the local bar and lounge, says all the right things at all the right times etc..etc.. We need to sign an artist by tonite. I think this is the one even though I've never heard the material. Must be good enough."I think that's quite a cold analysis, and in my experience, missing quite a serious part of it.You make headway in this, or any, business by attracting people with money and connections to work with you (that is, by attracting those who have what you don't, and who do what you can't - and vice versa). You provide potential partners with a vehicle towards their aims, and they provide you with what you need to reach yours.As an artist (or songwriter), you do this by the quality of your music.Case in point, an artist writes a potential hit that attracts a small independent record label to sign that, and promote it like crazy. The small indie is looking to make money (and reputation) out of it, and the way they do that is by having it licensed to compilations etc, or better yet to use their connections at the major record labels to get it in the door, with a view to a label licensing it for release. Yes it is still a numbers game, and you may not make it, but the quality of your product is directly proportional to the probability of your success.Also, I understand your distaste for those "suits", but though many A&R people are not able to strum a chord, they generally do have a VERY good head for what sounds great and what will work (and are often correct, too). Putting too much credence on whether they're musicians or not is a bit flawed - I wouldn't have a clue how to build a car, though I definitely know a Ferrari from a Suzuki Anyways, what this comes back to as an artist or songwriter though, is whether you have an amazing product that is "good enough" to attract the interest of potential partners. With that, there's are ways in - but you NEED to have that amazing product first.

[wta]

Well said tt. If I write a song that has all the elements of a good song BOTH the general listener AND the suits (they don't wear suits much anymore) will recognize it. The biggest problem is often WHO wrote/recorded the song. Let's face it folks I wouldn't trust most musicians to carry my guitar much less invest money into them! So who is attached to the song is just as much an issue. We need to apply the "is good enough good enough" question to artists as well. Most musicians can't balance a checkbook let alone keep their personal life solid so he or she can carry the lives of (not just others) but others and their families. Now again we're talking about seeing and artist get signed but its still and issue getting hooked up with a music publisher and/or library, they want to work with people who do what they say and deliver quality on time with NO excuses. I've been in the entertainment industry from the tender age of 12 and the one thing I've learned is THERE ARE NO EXCUSES, do what you said you where going to do or you're gone AND blackballed. Why is it so heavy? Because everyone's got their REPUTATION on the line with every job, no matter who it is and if they look like a screwup because of YOUR screwup its just UGLY. So when talking about getting music from the artist to the business world keep in mind that the quality of the artist as a person has as much to do with the deal as the music itself...

[ottlukk]

I've read the book. So Justin Wilde thinks he can judge a song from the opening two lines of the lyric and the melody? Isn't that a bit like watching a lady from her back, and not waiting until you get a view from the front? (that is, the chorus?)why not taste the bottom of a vanilla cone first, and not even bother to taste what kind of ice cream might be on top? Same attitude.this reeks of arrogance to me. How many quality songs did he miss? No one, including him, will ever know.Ott