Is "Good Enough" Good Enough?

[ggalen]

PB,As I see your viewpoint, you are saying that the "capitalist elite"... i.e."the System", "The Man" has great power over people, and directs them like sheep through fancy, trendy advertising.But are you saying that if all the "System" were to give the public was Beethoven and Bach violin music from the public domain, free of copyright and publishing royalties (Cheaper! More profits!), ...then that's what all the kids would love and crave? And that The System would still get rich?I don't believe that. It doesn't line up with my personal observations over the years.Your argument has a political flavor to me, rather than the feel of an impartial, scientific observation of how it all works.I'll agree that youngsters certainly are easy to manipulate with advertising. But I think really, young people just like basic music, with a beat, and a message that fires up their emotions and personal issues in a simple, direct way.And the record labels provide that, because it sells.

[ggalen]

Mojobone,What you said about playing on the street and seeing what people respond to...I was a regular performer at a club in a college town in the 1970s. I specialized in kind of "heavy", artistic music that I viewed as much as poetry and serious art as anything else.Crowds were OK, not huge. But appreciative. Then the club booked a couple of fraternity guys that played "happy music", kind of like Jimmy Buffet stuff of today.And those nights the club was packed with rowdy fans from Fraternity Row. The club was happy that the cash register was ringing.And I and my fellow singer-songwriters looked "down" with disdain at this "silly stuff".But...the place WAS full and jumping.I learned a lesson about how the music world works.

[mojobone]

Here's a little dirt on the live side of our business...http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1236727 ... .htmlSeems like a lot of the sources in the above article declined to be identified. http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/ ... article/My favorite line from Bob's article: "...because the public doesn’t perceive music to be as culturally important as their iPhone."And, juiciest of all:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/arts/ ... tml?_r=1My favorite line from the NYT article above? “It’s amazing what money does to people.” Can't wait to see if Vaccaro and his ilk can put Miley Cyrus and Disney out of business-hint: I ain't holdin' my breath.BTW, I never said the artists get nothing; I believe I mentioned I thought Albini was overstating the case. Mainly, my position is that there are many ways to be screwed, and not all of 'em feel good, so we need to educate ourselves and each other.

[michael11]

Sept 3, 2009, 6:50pm, mojobone wrote:Here's a little dirt on the live side of our business...http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1236727 ... .htmlSeems like a lot of the sources in the above article declined to be identified. http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/ ... article/My favorite line from Bob's article: "...because the public doesn’t perceive music to be as culturally important as their iPhone."And, juiciest of all:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/arts/ ... tml?_r=1My favorite line from the NYT article above? “It’s amazing what money does to people.” Can't wait to see if Vaccaro and his ilk can put Miley Cyrus and Disney out of business-hint: I ain't holdin' my breath.BTW, I never said the artists get nothing; I believe I mentioned I thought Albini was overstating the case. Mainly, my position is that there are many ways to be screwed, and not all of 'em feel good, so we need to educate ourselves and each other. Quote:Here's a little dirt on the live side of our business...http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1236727 ... .htmlSeems like a lot of the sources in the above article declined to be identified. I had a similar experience recently trying to get Eagles tickets.There was an advert in a national newspaper advertising The Eagles tour and I went online to try and get some tickets.I would happily pay £450 ($750) for three tickets to an Eagles concert.I searched and searched because I was desperate to see my hero's as I hadn't seen them for a couple of years.All of a sudden a little pop up box appears and I follow the link,I can get tickets if I am willing to pay £1200 ($1950) for the three tickets!!!!!!I declined.

[BraveNote]

"...because the public doesn’t perceive music to be as culturally important as their iPhone."This is precious. The public is fractured. Splintered into watered down, cultural fragments of yesterday's icons. I lost count of how many slices of Country Music there is. Let alone Rock, Hip Hop, Regae, Pop, Kiddy Pop, Pop Poop pop, and all the other genres someone cares to call it. How bout Cha cha? What ever happend to Bee Bop? Rock and Roll has had to splinter itself 50 times or more since Buddy Holly.How bout those Patriots! or, the Nicks? The Marlins?Where are we going with this? Someone help me out here....Music is just going into some kind of hibernation. Actually, I thought people were more preocupied with sports than with music. All the icons are playing in the NBA, the NFL and the NBL.Think Leonardo Da Vinci was concerned how much his take would be on the Mona Lisa? Think he was wondering if it was "good enough"?

[mojobone]

Actually the Mona Lisa was painted over the portrait of a lady patron of Da Vinci's who refused to pay-perhaps she didn't like the way he made her look. Perhaps THAT is the secret of the enigmatic smile.

[BraveNote]

Right MOJO.That was back when record companies patronized artists who didn't have to show promise for a recoup of their investment?When I find the time, I'll read about DaVinci's social class status and have to trust that it's a reliable account."Good enough" is not necessarily the best you can do if your information is true. Not getting paid for a project is alright with me as long as I didn't have to slave for a decent living, weather playing cover music or serving someone elses ambitions.My music is nothing more than a serious hobby until, "they" start paying me for my labor of love. So far however, I can support my hobby to it's fullest technological extent by giving service to an unrelated occupation.I'm not making money from music as I did when playing in bands and solo piano performances too much anymore. I am making "original" music however, from my income. That's what I had to do not to "sell-out" to the whims and time pressures of organized, corporate demands. Maybe this was too much unrelated information.

[mojobone]

No, it's related. We all have to find equilibrium between what we're willing to do for a buck and what someone else is willing to pay us for, if we're to have anything resembling a career. Otherwise, it's a really fun hobby. Your mileage may vary, whatever and ever, amen.

[BraveNote]

Well then. That's good enough for me.

[ottlukk]

The "Public " Setting the "Bar"? I have to disagree here. If you're a songwriter trying to get a cut, you go to anyone close to the artist, just to try to get someone to listen to your stuff. Here, you run into a classic catch-22. You don't have any cuts? Haven't done any co-writes with anyone? Call us back when you do. I've been following the blog of a certain Canadian singer/songwriter. She's up for several awards at the upcoming Canadian Country Music Awards. At least twice in the brief time I've been following her, she has made reference to "professional"songwriters she's been hooked up with. By her record company, I'm sure. And whatever they come up with is what will be offered to the "public". The "public" has a choice only after the choice has been made by people close the the songwriter. What I'm saying here is the public has no initial choice. You still have the people close to the artist picking what will be the first single, what will go on the album, etc. The "public" gets no votes beforehand. Reba's new album did great. The "public" didn't choose; it bought her new album because she's a proven talent. I'd love to find out if there was one tune on that album that didn't have a Nashville connection of some kind. Carrie Underwood's upcoming album? Again, the public will buy it because it's Carrie. But no member of the public is going to decide what gets on that album -- it's the people who run her career who decide. And she'll sell whatever they put on it.Ott