Re: Disney Terms of Use

cjdenecia · Post by **cjdenecia** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:42 pm

steve ....Quote:Again, from my perspective, every song is a dart I throw at the dartboard and hopefully one of 'em hits a bull's eye sooner or later. I'm Ok if I sign a song to someone, and it never makes me anything. I have lots more.I let that fly the first time ... but reiterating it forces me to say that now I completely know where you stand from a musical perspective. and tho we are in different worlds with what we do and where we stand - and I follow your line of reasoning ... I hope I never ever look at my music like product only. I pray I stay as close to my music as you are to your business of music. I wouldn't care if I had 1000 children - and I can look at my kids flaws objectively for certain, but I would never be able to just say what you just said about what I'd think would be your kids. but obviously, there's less heart in your music than dollar signs.just an observation and a prayer said out loud ... no offense - you're obviously very at ease with your stance so you should take none.

crs7string · Post by **crs7string** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:58 pm

I know this post is offtrack.Dec 4, 2008, 4:11pm, sgs4u wrote:Again, from my perspective, every song is a dart I throw at the dartboard and hopefully one of 'em hits a bull's eye sooner or later. I'm Ok if I sign a song to someone, and it never makes me anything. I have lots more. Steve,I think your comment reflects an abundance mentality.This was the same basic philosophy of George Gershwin, a rather successful songwriter.At one point in his career he moved from one house to another in NYC. A couple of trunks full of notebooks of songs were lost in the move.The public was aghast!!! All of this great Gershwin music lost forever.Gershwin's response:"There's plenty more where that came from"Back on track---consult an attorney and add some books to your library on the subject of the business of music. This is an unavoidable part of the journey.ChuckPS I know you feel differently about your kids than your songs.

cjdenecia · Post by **cjdenecia** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:09 pm

Quote:Steve,I think your comment reflects an abundance mentality.This was the same basic philosophy of George Gershwin, a rather successful songwriter.At one point in his career he moved from one house to another in NYC. A couple of trunks full of notebooks of songs were lost in the move.The public was aghast!!! All of this great Gershwin music lost forever.Gershwin's response:"There's plenty more where that came from"obviously a very loyal friend. good for you. he's good man, I give you that ... but gershwin ...??? let's get real here.

sgs4u · Post by **sgs4u** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:10 pm

Dec 4, 2008, 4:58pm, crs7string wrote:...I think your comment reflects an abundance mentality.PS I know you feel differently about your kids than your songs.Thanks Chuck, You're QUITE RIGHTDec 4, 2008, 4:42pm, cjdenecia wrote:steve ....I let that fly the first time ... but reiterating it forces me to say that now I completely know where you stand from a musical perspective. and tho we are in different worlds with what we do and where we stand - and I follow your line of reasoning ... I hope I never ever look at my music like product only. I pray I stay as close to my music as you are to your business of music. I wouldn't care if I had 1000 children - and I can look at my kids flaws objectively for certain, but I would never be able to just say what you just said about what I'd think would be your kids. but obviously, there's less heart in your music than dollar signs.just an observation and a prayer said out loud ... no offense - you're obviously very at ease with your stance so you should take none.I'm not going to do battle with you Cj. But I'm going to explain a bit about me, instead of you going to conclusions that might not do either of us, or everyone else, justice. Given what you believe you know about me thus far, you might be surprised to know how often I've been on your side of this issue. However, telling me my heart isn't in music, as much as dollar signs, is your very interesting, but also flawed observation. My heart goes into every moment of every day. That includes songs. I have gotten past thinking my songs are my children, and yes, it took a while. Hanging out with Taxi is a wonderful way to become objective about these kinds of things. Some people never believe that objectivity about one's art is important or necessary. Some people never need to know or learn it. I did, and it made me a better man. . You may not think you and I have much in common. Ask Matto or Vikki or Casey about my perspective when I first joined Taxi. I was absolutely convinced that Major Labels were ALL evil, and that they were the primary cause of their own demise. I believed all contract language to be suspicious, and worded to confuse and cheat songwriters. In 2 years, my purpose for joining Taxi and skillsets have been sharply updated. I still mostly write songs, with vocals that I'd love to hear other artists sing. I don't worry too much about the whole Film & TV thing, because my dream, like Warren's has always been about hearing stuff I'm involved in, on the radio. My wife's a pro broadcaster, as you probably know by now. I've only ever made money, by people paying to make music. You are welcome to disagree with me, call me names, try to tell people that I don't have a clue, or poke holes in my theories or advice. It's 5 o'clock quitting time at my house. See ya.

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:14 pm

Dec 4, 2008, 4:25pm, heinsite wrote:AND YES INDEED STEVE AND ANDREH---THIS is one of the rare times that i am with my capital letters--I AM YELLING!Calm down heinsite. A little lesson in forum ettiquette is nothing to get all worked up about, and I would hardly consider my or Steve's approach to it "lecturing."If you've just had a bad day and now are ashamed and wish to apologize to us, I'll gladly accept. André

kitz · Post by **kitz** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:22 pm

Thanks Alot!!You guys are definitely entertainers ALL!! I say that in a wonderful way. I have some other people looking at this but so far not a lawyer. The consensus seems to be that they own the rights to anything that is "submitted for them to hear" based on the wording of the terms of use. Just curious though, as my song is registered with the Library of Congress and also BMI. How would they take these rights from me based on my submitting for a listen? I own the copyright. I realize you guys aren't lawyers - well maybe some of you are - I don't know. What's an abigado?Kitz

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:26 pm

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/1 ... ag=Wendycj = Wendy, Steve = Cartman, the rest of us here = everyone else in the clip.André

ideascapes · Post by **ideascapes** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:26 pm

Apparently, they're claiming that as soon as you check the box that you accept the terms of submission and hit send, that's a digital signature on their publishing contract (that you just read).V>

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:39 pm

Dec 4, 2008, 4:11pm, sgs4u wrote:André & John, correct me if I'm wrong. But after reading that Disney language, it doesn't seem like they are asking you to sign over all the income from the song. You assign the publishing (exploiting rights) to Disney, they make a non-exclusive deal up for ya. They still have to register it with a PRO, and you still get your writer's share.They may not be explicitly stating that you won't receive any income from their exploitation of the "submission," but they certainly aren't saying the opposite.All the wording I can find is very clear about your handing over of copyright, and all other, ownership when you submit something through the site.I don't necessarily think this would hold up in a courtroom, but it would cost a hell of a lot of money to find out...André

andreh · Post by **andreh** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:46 pm

Dec 4, 2008, 4:02pm, cjdenecia wrote:I agree with andreh, I wouldn't sign. unless there was some big money guaranteed despite the contract.To the extent that this even IS a contract. It appears to me to be more of a blanket description of ownership of the site's content.I'm sure Disney has another contract(s) that's used for actual music licensing purposes. Again, I would seek alternative methods of submitting music to them for consideration. A more personalized approach is likely to yield better results anyway...André