Reviewing lyrics without music

[Casey H]

Quote:The No Doubt song is an excellent example of a song where looking at the lyric on it's own doesn't work...(unless you know the back story of the song...then that verse lyric becomes strangely powerful...)What is the back story of the song? I don't know it. Casey

[horacejesse]

For the most part I have stopped voicing negative opinions on the forum. We all have different tastes and what I consider an atrocioius song others might consider a work of genius. There is no value here in offending people or pissing them off.But I just have to give this example. Hopefully, no one on here is asscociated with this song in any way. Because it is one of the most ridiculous pieces of puke you will ever hear in your life. And yet it becomes a hit.What would any of you say if someone posted the following lyrics as the hook to their song and wanted your opinion?"The drinkin' bone's connected to the party bone,The party bone's connected to stayin' out all night long,She won't like it an' I'll be left all alone,The lonely bone's connected to the drinkin' bone."A work of pure genius, right? The songwriter in this case should be taken to a field and shot.It looks bleak for anyone who can actually write if this is now what you have to stoop to for Nashville's attention.To say you have to write this well to crack country is a misnomer. Maybe you have to write this poorly and ignorantly. Ever think of that?But the fact is this songwriter has a hit and the rest of us are still scratching our heads. That must mean we are stupid and this songwriter is a pure genius. Right?If you are a real songwriter it seems to me your big task is dumbing down your material enough to make is accessible to today's "adults."What started with Achy Breaky Heart has not run out of steam yet, as you can see from Drinkin' Bone. Next I expect more paraphrased nursery rhymes from the country geniuses. Watch for Mary Had A Little Lamb and Row, Row Row Your Boat.Don't try to steal these precious ideas from me, folks, I am already working on these two masterpieces.Well, would you figure Drinkin' Bone was a hit from a read of the lyrics?

[hummingbird]

Interesting thread. Since I belong to several songwriting boards and have spend many hours reviewing lyrics.... and have had some great help with my own lyrics.... I'd have to say I've found the experience very valuable. I know for a fact I'm a better writer than I was before I began posting feedback & lyrics. Seeing my writing from someone else's perspective was an awakening. I also found out about things like structure, contrast, rhyming, imagery, singability & various other technical parts of crafting a song, both from songwriting boards, Taxi critiques, one on one mentoring, etc. If I see a lyric (like the one you posted) that doesn't interest me I simply don't review it. H

[Casey H]

Quote:...If I see a lyric (like the one you posted) that doesn't interest me I simply don't review it... H Hi VikkiI think you may have been referring to the soap opera song I posted. ...I hope my creating this thread wasn't interpreted at all as discounting the feedback I got on that song's lyrics. The feedback I received on this forum was very valuable and I thank everyone who commented. As been mentioned, the value of a lyric (or any review) is dependent on the goal(s) of the songwriter- be it film/TV, artist placement, their own CD, or personal pleasure. Casey

[pogodog]

Nothings impossible:The 1991 film documentary Two Rooms described the Elton/Taupin writing style, which involves Taupin writing the lyrics on his own and Elton then putting them to music, with no further interaction between the two. Previously they worked by fax; today the lyrics are e-mailed to Elton. -Wiki

[horacejesse]

My rant caused me to coin a new term: "The brilliant idiotic," which refers to a person, an idea or the realm such concepts come from.I realized I have been wandering the brilliant idiotic for years, searching for the next Achy Breaky Heart, a concept so bad and corny it will crack through in the country market.Perhaps the the writer(s) of Lonely Bone is a genius after all who knew the song was artistic offal but understood the market so well that he realized the song could make it.Country is one of the few genres that still allows the songwriter to be creative with the title. This often comes in the form of puns and word play, e.g. "She Got the Gold Mine, I Got the Shaft," or "Pick Me Up On Your Way Down." or "She's Acting Single and I'm Drinkin' Doubles." I could come up with dozens of examples, almost all from country. A more recent example would be "Some Beach."But somewhere along the line mindless party music pretty much took over country. Today's perversion of the above clever titles goes something like, "Honky Tonk Ba-Donky-Donk," or "Lonely Bone."Being in Taxi has given me a lot of realizations about the country market today. I had become so disgusted that I really did not listen to it anymore. Recently I put in six or seven hours of listening to country while surfing three sattelite TV stations. It was hard and unpleasant work for the most part, but an eye and ear opener. If I heard Kenny Chesney sing "You Save Me," one more time I was determined to commit suicide. Almost all the love songs are about love instead of losing it. Family songs are bigger than ever. There are some really good songs too, but often they do not get much play. I kept flicking between those three channels looking for "I Loved Her First," but amazingly, I never did hear it. Eventually I figured it must be a matter of payola. All three channels are on the same system. Then I found the sheet music in our little local music store. The song is a hit if it makes it to this cowtown in the form of sheet music. It is a nice song. Deep in the tradition. I heard at least three other similarly themed songs in my six or seven hours.Almost anyone can recognize the value of a song like "I Loved Her First." But can the Taxi screeners recognize the brilliant idiotic when they hear it raw in their booth? Can we get a Lonely Bone through, or are we competing exclusively with the likes of I Loved Her First?

[edteja]

One of the things that I learned in submitting to TAXI country listings (learning a ton of stuff, as you have been, Horacejesse) is that they seem to distinguish between good country songs (not the stuff you are referring to), which get forwards, and the hit recordings of the party or silly type, which they don't want to forward. Several writing books mention the difference between "good songs" and "good records", saying that the good records are songs that strike the recording artist's fancy--sometimes written by them. Further, they point out that many of these hits would never make it through the A&R channels if not for the desire of the artist to record them.And this hits the nail on the head for me. You won't get a forward from Taxi for an obvious junk hit (my term) because the A&R department that screens them next isn't looking for those. And of course there will be exceptions, but I think in those cases you would have to produce the "record" so that it could be heard exactly in its final form in order to get a forward.At least that is what it seems like to me.

[booker]

So... you're saying my song "Get off my backhoe" is a no go?

[hummingbird]

Quote:Quote:...If I see a lyric (like the one you posted) that doesn't interest me I simply don't review it... H Hi VikkiI think you may have been referring to the soap opera song I posted. ...I hope my creating this thread wasn't interpreted at all as discounting the feedback I got on that song's lyrics. The feedback I received on this forum was very valuable and I thank everyone who commented. Caseyno.... I wasn't referring to that I had actually written a line about being way too busy lately to review lyrics because I always take 30 or 40 minutes to write a detailed review.... but then I took that line out cause I didn't wanna whine about time when here I am posting Some of this thread is veering towards the "how does that crap get on the radio" point which is discussed at the Rally every year. How the crap gets on the radio is...-- the artist writes it as part of the album-- the artist chooses it-- the label promotes the record/single (payola)-- there's some element in it (probably 'groove') that kids are gonna get excited aboutIt's a very real fact in the music industry that the songs that make the charts have the full weight of the label & it's marketing budget behind them.I don't think the fact that there is crap on the radio should deter us from having the artistic integrity to write the songs that matter to us with the craft & skill that we have/are developing.My personal goal is to figure out how to write well-crafted commercially viable music from the soul. What's on the radio will not deter me from my artistic path. H

[Casey H]

And actually, Vikki, what's on the radio has nothing to do with the standard that unknown non-performing songwriters have to live up to. Complaining about how our songs are better than the crap on the radio accomplishes nothing. The double standard is there and we can either accept it and deal, or get nowhere. Casey