Well known Library taking part of writers share...

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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by CTWF » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:49 pm

stevebarden wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:05 am
If you are only capable of writing shitty music then you will never be able to demand what you're worth.
Yes, you will, because then your music is worth zero. :lol: :roll:

Okay, got the point. 8-)
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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by AlanHall » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:13 pm

This has been an awesome and scary thread to follow, better I get a grip on this now rather than later. Thank you all for the opinions and points of view on this. As a newbie - and relative outsider - I have these thoughts:
If the library wants 50% of the writer's share (and is not giving up 50% of the publisher's share - I've heard about that arrangement sometime in the past) it sounds to me like a co-write arrangement. So what is the library putting on the table to make that appealing? Do they have support services that enable a songwriter to call in and say (for example) "I'm stuck on this verse, gimme some ideas of how to finish the last four lines" or "Be a pal, and bring me a nice cuppa coffee"? If a library wants part of the writer's share then they need to do part of the writer's work. What part of the writing are they collaborating on? If the answer is none, then the writer's response aught to thoughtfully weigh that.

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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by Kolstad » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:47 pm

JohnnyP wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:28 am
Kolstad wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:27 am
PMA will come out with a public statement about giving up writers shares soon. Morgan (from PMA) wrote that composers should stand their ground on Facebook earlier in July, so OP could try to contact them. They will help you out on this issue.
Thanks for that info Kolstad. Morgan's a wonderful advocate for us but I hadn't heard the PMA was going to release an official stance on this subject. I did attend some raucous PMC meetings out at the Lowes in the fall of '18 and '19 so I had a general sense of where a majority of the writers that attended that seminar stood.

Here's a case in point for not taking the buyout/dilution of your writer's share from a few months ago..

I was offered the option of a buyout on one of my songs by a huge streaming company, you know the name. The song aired for :45 seconds on an episode in April and the 10 episode show was the most popular show on the network. It was a sync fee of between 5-10k and I had the option to just fill in an amount for the buyout. I opted to keep my back end.
The sweetest part is this placement was through a sync agent. She received 35% of the sync, I received 65% of the sync plus I received 100% of the writers and 100% of the publisher's share.

I know this example may be a bit like comparing oranges to tangerines but my point is to hold on to as much of the interest and control of your creative work as possible.
You are an inspiration, John. Thats an awesome story!

Yes, Morgan from the PMA wrote on FB that she’d be happy to help of anyone had issues with these companies. PMA is working hard at this moment with this, as they have experienced an number of cases lately. Seems some companies have been testing the waters, to see how many would be inclined to accept this type of deals. I guess they know people are under pressure due to Covid19, and try to exploit the situation.

PM me to get the exact quote from Morgan along with her email (not sure if I may post that here)..

Yeah, I guess it’s possible to set up your own shop and get a sync agent, bypassing more middle men. In the end, I think it will be the libraries that will fall in a direct battle of rights with writers/ composers. After all, they dont produce any music. Their only asset is to offer a win-win situation.

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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by JohnnyP » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:01 am

Kolstad wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:47 pm
JohnnyP wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:28 am
Kolstad wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:27 am
PMA will come out with a public statement about giving up writers shares soon. Morgan (from PMA) wrote that composers should stand their ground on Facebook earlier in July, so OP could try to contact them. They will help you out on this issue.
Thanks for that info Kolstad. Morgan's a wonderful advocate for us but I hadn't heard the PMA was going to release an official stance on this subject. I did attend some raucous PMC meetings out at the Lowes in the fall of '18 and '19 so I had a general sense of where a majority of the writers that attended that seminar stood.

Here's a case in point for not taking the buyout/dilution of your writer's share from a few months ago..

I was offered the option of a buyout on one of my songs by a huge streaming company, you know the name. The song aired for :45 seconds on an episode in April and the 10 episode show was the most popular show on the network. It was a sync fee of between 5-10k and I had the option to just fill in an amount for the buyout. I opted to keep my back end.
The sweetest part is this placement was through a sync agent. She received 35% of the sync, I received 65% of the sync plus I received 100% of the writers and 100% of the publisher's share.

I know this example may be a bit like comparing oranges to tangerines but my point is to hold on to as much of the interest and control of your creative work as possible.
You are an inspiration, John. Thats an awesome story!

Yes, Morgan from the PMA wrote on FB that she’d be happy to help of anyone had issues with these companies. PMA is working hard at this moment with this, as they have experienced an number of cases lately. Seems some companies have been testing the waters, to see how many would be inclined to accept this type of deals. I guess they know people are under pressure due to Covid19, and try to exploit the situation.

PM me to get the exact quote from Morgan along with her email (not sure if I may post that here)..


Yeah, I guess it’s possible to set up your own shop and get a sync agent, bypassing more middle men. In the end, I think it will be the libraries that will fall in a direct battle of rights with writers/ composers. After all, they dont produce any music. Their only asset is to offer a win-win situation.
Hey Kolstad, I just found Morgan McKnight’s (PMC) FB post and read the comments. It seems most writers there agree with us and are of the mind that the writer’s share is sacrosanct.
If we as writers, composers and producers do not value and protect our creative content- who will?
And thank you for the kind words Kolstad. I’m only 3 and a half years in on the production music journey. It sure is an interesting one. Best, John
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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by DesireInspires » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:26 am

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:18 pm
DesireInspires wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:09 pm
cosmicdolphin wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:03 pm
Amen to that, some folks seem to rock up here thinking Taxi is an easy way to make 'mailbox money'.....then you listen to crap they're churning out :shock: ...If only these people put a fraction as much effort into learning some music skills as they do promoting themselves. :roll:
Making good music is simply not enough.
Well that changes everything!

I'm not talking about people who make good music here

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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by DesireInspires » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:27 am

DesireInspires wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:26 am
cosmicdolphin wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:18 pm
DesireInspires wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:09 pm

Making good music is simply not enough.

I'm not talking about people who make good music here
Well that changes everything!

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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by crs7string » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:30 am

I can’t help but to think that if one agreed to giving up 50% of their writer’s share that, over time, there would be a build up of internal resentment.

The pitch seems to be; You will have more placements because we will be have fewer composers working on each show we provide music to.

Let’s say that comes true. Your income with this library doubles, or even triples. What if the income grows from $10,000 to $ 30,000.

You now may have the nagging feeling that the library took the other half of the writer’s share, in this case $30,000, and essentially turned it over to the production company so that the library could still be whole.

Who wins in this scenario:

Production company: YES

Music library: YES

Composer: ???
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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by cosmicdolphin » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:00 am

crs7string wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:30 am
I can’t help but to think that if one agreed to giving up 50% of their writer’s share that, over time, there would be a build up of internal resentment.
It is disheartening to see others names on cues sheets and PRO statements that didn't work on the tracks.

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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by JohnnyP » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:33 am

crs7string wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:30 am
I can’t help but to think that if one agreed to giving up 50% of their writer’s share that, over time, there would be a build up of internal resentment.

The pitch seems to be; You will have more placements because we will be have fewer composers working on each show we provide music to.

Let’s say that comes true. Your income with this library doubles, or even triples. What if the income grows from $10,000 to $ 30,000.

You now may have the nagging feeling that the library took the other half of the writer’s share, in this case $30,000, and essentially turned it over to the production company so that the library could still be whole.

Who wins in this scenario:

Production company: YES

Music library: YES

Composer: ???
Well said C. There are so many facets of this scenario that are detrimental to the composer. Best, John
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Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by SubRivers » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:46 pm

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:00 am
crs7string wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:30 am
I can’t help but to think that if one agreed to giving up 50% of their writer’s share that, over time, there would be a build up of internal resentment.
It is disheartening to see others names on cues sheets and PRO statements that didn't work on the tracks.
Actually that raises a point - is the OP's "well known library" asking for a co-write credit ?
Does that mean you assign 50% share of the song copyright as well as 50% of the Writer's royalties to the library ?

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