Well known Library taking part of writers share...

A creative space for business discussions.

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

Post Reply
User avatar
DesireInspires
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Miami Beach
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by DesireInspires » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:44 am

guscave wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:55 am
Casey H wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:55 pm
guscave wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:26 am
I'm seeing this trend growing more, but not so much as the library asking for half of the writer's share for themselves but rather the production company asking for it. In return they are promising the library a lot more placements to offset the loss. I know of one library that has gotten me lots of placements that is no longer taking in new writers unless they agree with the new terms.

I'm not too crazy about it and hope it doesn't become the new norm, but it is popping up more and more.
I hope you didn't sign this type of deal, my "old" friend.

Best,
:D Casey
Hi Casey,
Normally I wouldn't go for such a deal, but this library does extremely well for me. I spent about 2 hours on a video conference with the CEO discussing this as well as other issues before making my decision. This type of deal is exclusive to only one production company they work with. All other placemets will still remain the same as before. The idea here is that we shouldn't see an decrease in revenue because there will be more placements. But only time will tell. Good thing is I can pull out of it at any time by simply not providing any more music to them.
Good deal, bro. Hopefully you will have more $10,000 coming your way!

JohnnyP
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:20 am
Gender: Male
Location: Nashville area
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by JohnnyP » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:02 am

guscave wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:26 am
I'm seeing this trend growing more, but not so much as the library asking for half of the writer's share for themselves but rather the production company asking for it. In return they are promising the library a lot more placements to offset the loss. I know of one library that has gotten me lots of placements that is no longer taking in new writers unless they agree with the new terms.

I'm not too crazy about it and hope it doesn't become the new norm, but it is popping up more and more.
Gus,
I think your post here encapsulates the issue to me.

This particular production company asked the library/it’s writers for more of the “pie” in return for a promise of more placements. A promise that may or may not be kept.. It could conceivably be further amended by the prod company for a larger piece in the future.

Now I can’t completely blame this prod co for “asking” for a bigger share- asking is part of the negotiating process. In my opinion the fault lies with the library for capitulating to these new terms and passing them on to its writers.
This is a large library with several US offices and a presence in Europe.
I would’ve thought they would have the strength to resist this deal and not leave their writers with this “take it or leave it” offer ..
John Pearson
www.johnptunes.com

JohnnyP
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:20 am
Gender: Male
Location: Nashville area
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by JohnnyP » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:04 am

JohnnyP wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:02 am
guscave wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:26 am
I'm seeing this trend growing more, but not so much as the library asking for half of the writer's share for themselves but rather the production company asking for it. In return they are promising the library a lot more placements to offset the loss. I know of one library that has gotten me lots of placements that is no longer taking in new writers unless they agree with the new terms.

I'm not too crazy about it and hope it doesn't become the new norm, but it is popping up more and more.
Gus,
I think your post here encapsulates the issue for me.

This particular production company asked the library/it’s writers for more of the “pie” in return for a promise of more placements. A promise that may or may not be kept.. It could conceivably be further amended by the prod company for a larger piece in the future.

Now I can’t completely blame this prod co for “asking” for a bigger share- asking is part of the negotiating process. In my opinion the fault lies with the library for capitulating to these new terms and passing them on to its writers.
This is a large library with several US offices and a presence in Europe.
I would’ve thought they would have the strength to resist this deal and not leave their writers with this “take it or leave it” offer ..
John Pearson
www.johnptunes.com

JohnnyP
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:20 am
Gender: Male
Location: Nashville area
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by JohnnyP » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:04 am

JohnnyP wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:04 am
JohnnyP wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:02 am
guscave wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:26 am
I'm seeing this trend growing more, but not so much as the library asking for half of the writer's share for themselves but rather the production company asking for it. In return they are promising the library a lot more placements to offset the loss. I know of one library that has gotten me lots of placements that is no longer taking in new writers unless they agree with the new terms.

I'm not too crazy about it and hope it doesn't become the new norm, but it is popping up more and more.
Gus,
I think your post here encapsulates the issue for me.

This particular production company asked the library/its writers for more of the “pie” in return for a promise of more placements. A promise that may or may not be kept.. It could conceivably be further amended by the prod company for a larger piece in the future.

Now I can’t completely blame this prod co for “asking” for a bigger share- asking is part of the negotiating process. In my opinion the fault lies with the library for capitulating to these new terms and passing them on to its writers.
This is a large library with several US offices and a presence in Europe.
I would’ve thought they would have the strength to resist this deal and not leave their writers with this “take it or leave it” offer ..
John Pearson
www.johnptunes.com

Kolstad
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 4479
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:19 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by Kolstad » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:45 am

guscave wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:48 am
Kolstad wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:52 am
DesireInspires wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:32 pm


I’d sign this deal with the quickness. Please send me a PM about this company. I got some cues that I need to get signed!
You seem to have misunderstood the business of music. It's not about signing away your rights to get into a low end library. Its about keeping your rights, while getting music placed in high end productions.
The library I'm talking about is not a low end library. This library represents about 75% of my income. Again the library is not keeping the 50% writer for all thier placements. This is specific to one very large production company who is requesting it from any library they deal with from now on.
Fair enough, but where do you draw the line? Next time, or 5th time, or when they start asking for more? When they change the deal for their whole catalogue? When they are only 50%, 25% or 10% of your income? When is enough, enough for you?

I understand it’s hard, if you rely on this income. But it seems like you will take a hit either way, we all do.

User avatar
eeoo
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 3617
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:26 pm
Gender: Male
Location: NorCal
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by eeoo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:37 am

So they're saying that you won't see a decrease in revenue because they're going to get you more placements? I see that as working for half your normal rate. What am I missing?

I won't be partaking in the race to the bottom.

User avatar
AmandaJane
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:17 pm
Gender: Female
Location: South Galway, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by AmandaJane » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:41 am

Personally I would never consider giving a share of my writer's copyright to a library of any sort, however many placements they were going to get me.

As far as I am concerned it will simply be another nail in the race to the bottom, and the nails will be making the holes that make the boat sink :cry:
Gotta love mixed metaphors :mrgreen: :lol:

Libraries, like us, have a choice who they have as clients. So, this particular library have accepted a deal say from one production company to share the publisher's copyright with them, and are now trying to pass that on to their writers/composers via the 50% of the writer's copyright. What about all this library's other clients who aren't asking for a share of the publishing ? Think on this, if you sign the deal for your entire catalogue (past and future) with this library, you will on some, or even many, occasions be giving them 50% of your writer's share even when the end client isn't asking for 50% of the publishing... :cry:
I might be a tad mad, but hell, I am not that mad !

I also value songwriters and composers as a whole, and like to think I try to support them in general too, and not just be out for myself.
Sláinte, Amanda



Amanda West - Lyricist | SoundCloud | My Website | TAXI

User avatar
Casey H
King of the World
King of the World
Posts: 12397
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by Casey H » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:45 am

eeoo wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:37 am
So they're saying that you won't see a decrease in revenue because they're going to get you more placements? I see that as working for half your normal rate. What am I missing?

I won't be partaking in the race to the bottom.
Lose money on every sale but make it up in volume! :o

User avatar
AmandaJane
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:17 pm
Gender: Female
Location: South Galway, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by AmandaJane » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:52 am

Casey H wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:45 am
eeoo wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:37 am
So they're saying that you won't see a decrease in revenue because they're going to get you more placements? I see that as working for half your normal rate. What am I missing?

I won't be partaking in the race to the bottom.
Lose money on every sale but make it up in volume! :o
Yup, work 2 or 3 times as hard for the same income...
Sláinte, Amanda



Amanda West - Lyricist | SoundCloud | My Website | TAXI

User avatar
andygabrys
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:09 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Summerland, BC by way of Santa Fe, Chilliwack, Boston, NYC
Contact:

Re: Well known Library taking part of writers share...

Post by andygabrys » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:38 am

guscave wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:55 am

Normally I wouldn't go for such a deal, but this library does extremely well for me. I spent about 2 hours on a video conference with the CEO discussing this as well as other issues before making my decision. This type of deal is exclusive to only one production company they work with. All other placemets will still remain the same as before. The idea here is that we shouldn't see an decrease in revenue because there will be more placements. But only time will tell. Good thing is I can pull out of it at any time by simply not providing any more music to them.
Sure they get a lot of placements due to their proximity to a video editing suite that is also owned by the same individual(s). It should be noted that this library places mostly on TV, lots of unscripted, and a good deal of sports programming.

Existing catalog items will continue to be paid at the same as the existing 100% writers contract. They will not be pitched to new shows or opportunities where the deal that the library offers is the newer 50% of writers.

Existing Placements will be paid at the old 100% writers rate.

I understand why you would want to go with this deal - as if they are your bread and butter, you continue on. If you are one of the top writers in your genre and you produce more cues than others you will have a greater share of the money assuming that all the cues are of the same quality. Hopefully that is many times what you earn now even though the rate will be at 50%.

For the industry as a whole, and for what composers choose to do - this is a negative stroke though. If it propagates to other production companies / networks in the future this is a downward spiral. Protect your portion of syncs and writers share. Don't give it away.

this: This type of deal is exclusive to only one production company they work with. All other placemets will still remain the same as before. I can't say is true.

Looks like the rate is going to 50% for pitching to this company as well as all others for the new music that you write. Its only existing music that will be paid in accordance with the old contract.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests