Why was Sgt. Peppers such a huge album?

[mani]

Quote:Direct and diminishing aren't the same, though.Well seeing as you know the difference you'll recognize that I wasn't being diminishing to these mens' achievements. That said, tackling the cult of personality is not a bad thing in my book. Maybe it is in yours, although if you care so little about these mens' private lives then nothing I say about them as men should make a jot of difference to you either way. Btw, last I heard, yeah...dead guys!! For the record, the cultural honesty I was referring to in my other post is not something you'd have experience of even if you are of Irish extraction and from NJ. It simply doesn't exist in the U.S. The point to remember is that we don't consider it rude/diminishing/personal to say anything flat out and don't take it as such either. That most certainly is not the case in NJ!

[katy]

Actually, that's not necessarily true. My experience is that people in NJ & NY tend to be outspoken (given room for the reality that no "stereotype" is without exceptions). Cultural honesty? That's a humorous thought! But, clearly I realize there are many aggressive thingssaid in the name of "honesty". And, at that point, I findthe aggression to be more notable than the supposed"truth" being spoken, whether it's an Irish person or not. But, I don't imagine we'll be agreeing on the issue of "honesty" being used as a sword. Regarding their deaths, I think it's most interesting thatthey were both assassinated, yet their work lives onwith great impact.

[booker]

.....as I was saying.... about the Sgt peppers album...ahem! MLK wasn't on that cover. We wasn't on the white album either. (let's not go there)BTW mani....you are welcome to call a "spade a spade", but I would refrain from calling MLK "a spade" thats slang for something else here. Just a public service announcement.

[ernstinen]

Quote:Cultural honesty? That's a humorous thought! But, clearly I realize there are many aggressive thingssaid in the name of "honesty". And, at that point, I findthe aggression to be more notable than the supposed"truth" being spoken, whether it's an Irish person or not. But, I don't imagine we'll be agreeing on the issue of "honesty" being used as a sword. This is interesting --- on another musical forum, there are two guys from the UK who have been pretty "honest" with each other (read: threatening). It got to the point that one guy said "I'll meet you at the pub, and we'll see which part of your anatomy goes through the window first." Pretty creative way to say I'm gonna kick your a*s*s, but the Moderators soon stepped in and put a stop to it.Now one of the two asks the other when he's going to learn to spell --- here we go again! So maybe the British Isles have a little 'tude, but I hear New York City and Boston do, too. And how about Philly --- they boo Santa Claus there!Ern

[mani]

Quote:BTW mani....you are welcome to call a "spade a spade", but I would refrain from calling MLK "a spade" thats slang for something else here.LOL! I'm familiar with the term Rock! Don't worry, I may be dumb but I won't make that mistake!Quote:Actually, that's not necessarily true. My experience is that people in NJ & NY tend to be outspoken clearly I realize there are many aggressive thingssaid in the name of "honesty". And, at that point, I findthe aggression to be more notable than the supposed"truth" being spokenHi KatyInteresting that you bring up the point about aggression coz that's the fundamental difference between an outspoken New Yorker and an outspoken Dubliner: The aggressive intent is not there! Believe it or not there are places on this planet where people have strong opinions and speak them but don't intend any harm or hate at all. In fairness it is difficult to translate this to someone who has no experience of it. Like most things in life you've got to see it for yourself to understand what a gaping difference there is. Unfortunately though, perceived threat of aggression when there is none seems to be engrained in the American psyche. There's always an enemy whether it's the natives, the commies, the moslems or whoever's next. Where I come from, it's not like that. Just one more thing. John Lennon was quite possibly the most irreverend celebrity personality of the 20th century. This was a man who spoke his mind willy nilly, offending people (often unintentionally) left right and centre. He had no time at all for sacred cows. For anyone to take umbrage at him being called a 'bullshit artist' is ironic in the extreme. I'm sure the irony of it wouldn't be lost on him. Hi Ern,I wouldn't go lumping the U.K. in with Ireland! We're not that similar generally speaking with the exception of places like Manchester and Liverpool. Btw, John, Paul and George were all of Irish extraction and used to slag Ringo mercilessly because of his lack of roots!

[booker]

Hey! we're back on topic!

[drew]

I wonder what the Beatles thought of MLK?

[mani]

I knew we'd do it eventually! Btw, congratulations are in order Rock. You're over 2,000 viewings now! You're like the Peyton Manning of the TAXI forum. Hope you don't geek it at the forum playoffs!!

[katy]

mani, I'm not sure why you make the assumptionthat I have no "experience" of it. I've been to a numberof Irish and English pubs, both abroad and in the States.Out here, many of the patrons are from Ireland and England. To say that Irish people have a "culture of honesty" and non-aggression, while Americans are"ingrained" to misjudge aggression sounds like a whitewash at best. But, I surely agree to disagree onthis one because perception really can't be easilydebated, eh?I have no idea what Lennon would have said if you called him a "bullshit artist". But, I'm not so sure hewould have seen it as "ironic". He may have seen itas disrespectful, rude, or ignorant. Who knows? Either way, it's a shame he's not still here. And, LOL Drew!

[mani]

Quote:I've been to a number of Irish and English pubs, both abroad and in the States.So? I've been to plenty of Burger Joints around the world while there were Americans there. I wouldn't claim it gave me any great insight! What you're saying is you've never been to Ireland so in reality the culture and attitude is beyond your current experience. If you'd ever been there you'd know that the idea of 'the fighting Irish' is a laughable misnomer. We're a very laid back nation. If on the other hand you're talking about Northern Ireland (a different country) yes it is indeed filled with people full of hate, aggression and fear. Like the bad parts of Brooklyn to the power of 10. An awful place. Don't ever go there! Quote:To say that Irish people have a "culture of honesty" and non-aggression sounds odd.I'm sure it does to you but then you come from a place where wanton aggression is rampant. Please allow that the whole world is not like this.I wouldn't like you to think that I believe Irish people are better than Americans. I don't. All the things I'm trying (and probably failing) to convey to you could be shown more easily by a night in a good pub in Dublin. You'd get what I'm trying to say very quickly then! -------------Sorry Katy, you edited your last post while I was writing this, so one of the above quotes is different! As regards whitewashing just let me say: Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. The Irish are a nation of drunks. There's no doubt about it. Is every one? No. But it's still largely a truism. Americans are disliked worldwide because of they're aggressive nature. People in the U.S. have a very aggressive social tone. So much so that some (like yourself) can't even conceive of the notion that someone from a different cultural background might be capable of making a contrary statement without intending any aggressive connotations.Quote:I have no idea what Lennon would have said if you called him a "bullshit artist". But, I'm not so sure hewould have seen it as "ironic".I'm beginning to think you're not reading my posts closely enough. I didn't say he'd find me calling him a 'bullshit artist' ironic. I said he'd find it ironic to be treated as a sacred cow when he had no time for such nonsense himself! Please get it straight. The fact that you missed this last point makes me wonder how many others you missed! Anyway, Lennon was indeed a bullshit artist and MLK was definitely an adulterer. Case closed.