Writing Hit Songs - Myths

[jchitty]

Quote:Like I said 6 pages ago, "Uh-oh! I feel a debate brewing!" LOL!

[geo]

Quote:Quote:I disagree, I have a history with a bunch of returns where the screener enjoyed my off target submission. You've got powerful ideas with the potential to have a huge emotional impact for listeners. If i may make a suggestion: I think you might be undercutting the inherent strength of this song by tackling two huge themes - personal freedom and society's injustices. Consider choosing one of these (loss of personal freedom through addiction to drugs, money, love OR loss of control over the integrity of our lives and our environment). Home in on that and drive it home for your listeners. This is of course from a return.I know it wasn't directed at me but I felt compelled to answer that statement... there's tons of exciting music (a lot made by members of this forum) that has no commercial viability... GeoGeo-I think you are in the minority (I am inspired by much of your music), but even the example you give seems to emphasize my point. You wrote the song for yourself without any commercial objectives in mind [that's my assumption based on your use of it in this example], and the listener (the screener, in this case), says it has "potential to have a huge emotional impact for listeners."Perhaps if you'd written the song with the listener (or the market) in mind, the suggestions the screener makes would've been addressed before you submitted the song...and its "potential" impact would've been just plain impact! AndréTrue.... or maybe I could have analyzed the current market, decided there was no need to write a song about the social/economic situation in my homeland and instead wrote a "silly love song" cause that is what was hot at the moment... and then I would have never written what is one of my favorite songs of mine... (p.s. thank you for the compliment as my talents pale in comparison )... but there is a lot of crap out there... commercial or otherwise.... I fall back on the simplistic.. a great song... is a great song... Geo

[Casey H]

Quote:Quote:HiI have to apologize because I haven't been able to keep up with all the posts on this thread.... (Damn day job!)The way I see it is it's a matter of simple probability. Somewhere out there someone went for a job interview, didn't dress or smell so good, but got the job anyway. That doesn't make it the recommended way to go... The better you are at writing songs, the better your odds of commercial success. What is "better"? You could make the argument that "better" is hard to define but I think some things are universally accepted: Catchy hook, lyrics that people can relate to, good imagery, etc... So, if you study the craft to master those things, you've increased the probability.... Plain and simple, in my book.There is nothing wrong with writing for "art", for your own pleasure or therapy, doing it 'your way', etc. If you make the choice, then IMHO it's not fair to complain. I readily admit I write some songs that may not be overly commercially marketable. For some of those, I may chose not to change them. But I won't complain, curse the industry, what's on the radio, rag on critque-ers, etc.Probability... like hitting or sticking in blackjack... Casey Holy Mother of....Glenn's one helluva a gardener....this thread has six pages in just two days!You summed up my thinking about songwriting, Case. It's the luck of the draw sometimes. (but not all the time people, hehe) Keep creating those darts (in the form of songs) and maybe one day, you'll hit a target. Sorry, mixed metaphors there, hehe.Hi Chits... Just to clarify what I said or meant to say... It's not just the luck of the draw-- that would imply the odds are the same for all... What I'm saying is, metaphorically, there is a draw but if you write better songs, you get more straws. Casey

[jchitty]

Oh, I agree, Casey. You have to work hard and write better songs. And lots of songs if you can as well.....you increase your chances.I'm guessing my dart board theory is similar to yours....we just say it in different ways.

[Mark Kaufman]

I just returned to this thread. When I read "...a debate brewing", I immediately thought about beer. And now look what all I missed!

[jchitty]

Lindsey brought up an interesting point for me. I don't say this to be 'humbler than thou' or to put myself down, but when I listen to people's work here, it can be tough sometimes. Mainly because I know I have such a long way to go to be in the same category as some of these veterans here, and that may never happen. I will certainly work hard, try to learn from the song critiques, but it can be daunting.The beauty of the TAXI board is that you walk away ENCOURAGED, but you also walk away DISCOURAGED. (yes, that's beauty in itself too) When I first started posting here, I thought my songs were the best thing since sliced bread. I soon learned how lacking they were, but I've also learned how to try to fix things a bit. I really feel like this board is gonna produce a lot of great songwriters in the future (it already has).....sort of like Paris and The Lost Generation, if you'll permit me to use a little hyperbole.

[sgs4u]

It depends how one says allI forgot a comma, it meant so much....it's just not all,that black and whitegrey enough foiya?s Quote:Quote:To me, it's just not really all, that black and white.Quote:I agree that there are many black and white issues, when it comes to writing great songs. I hadn't suggested otherwise. basically saying the same thing - there are many black & white issues, but not ALL are.

[ciskokidd]

Traveling Ed takes a good approach here. I'm in agreeance that you don't throw the baby out with the bath water.This book may indeed help some people take the next step to make their songs better and improve on their craft. And that to me is definitely a good thing.I have read many many (did I say many) songwriting books and while some were better than others at teaching me personally, I always took away a little nugget here and there even from the poorly written ones.Cisko

[andreh]

Quote:I fall back on the simplistic.. a great song... is a great song... GeoI'm with ya on that.André

[Mark Kaufman]

The book is being marketed to people who are into songwriting, but have never yet dealt with or thought much about the market. It's pretty good for jostling the mind and popping a few thought bubbles...but there are definitely plenty of debatable points, too.As far as writing hits...if you are outside of the circle, and you wish to sell the song to someone else to perform...then your song needs a lot of magic elements: it needs to be mindblowingly good, structurally flawless (or the "flaws" need to serve an obviously cool and catchy purpose), it needs to be immediately appealing to a particular target audience, it needs to be timely, and most importantly...it needs to be a natural fit for the performer.That "natural fit for the performer" thing...the "ala", if you will...has been on my mind a lot lately. It seems to me that if you write an "ala" TOO precisely, you are liable to fall down. The song that might appeal most to a successful act is an "ala" that is both a natural fit, and yet also a slight departure...a "new" feeling. And yet very obviously a perfect fit for the act.There it is, a piece of cake. Go write it.