Logic Users... To Normalize or not to?

[mojobone]

RE: -03dB, it also leaves some headroom for MP3 converters.

There's pretty much never a good reason to normalize anything, it can only hurt your audio. Very important to stress that the process is a digital gain change, it does not affect the dynamic range in any way, just brings up the level of everything, including any noise you may have inadvertently recorded, and effectively removes all headroom from your file.

[elser]

I recently entered a remix contest. The song is somewhat of a hit. They posted about 16 stems, everything from individual hi hats, to mixed down backing vocals. What's relevant to this thread is that all the files had at least 50% headroom left in them. Not only were none of the tracks normalized but apparently they were recorded at very low levels as well.

[Len911]

I use normalization mainly after I have recorded vocals and they are at a low level in cubase. I hate to turn the preamp or compressor up. It gives me more headroom without using the cubase amplifiers. That way I can turn the fader down instead of up. Cubase has different levels of normalization so I can normalize as much as I need to rather than just 100%. This allows me to place my signal optimally within the range of the fader. Normalization has less effect than any other options, to my ears really no effect other than too low to hear, and now I can hear.

I use cubase, but I am sure Logic probably has a way also to automate the faders. It hasn't been all that long ago I discovered how to do that. In cubase, I just press the R&W buttons, read and write automation. Then I have the mouse on the fader and go through the song, moving it as necessary, and I can even rewind or go through the song however many times necessary making adjustments. When I am finally finished, I can listen through and see the faders moving up and down automatically.

Then after all that, I can use a classical preset on the sonnox mastering limiter. If I didn't do the first two steps, I would need a heavier preset on the sonnox to squash unruly signals and bring up the quiet passages.

I don't always need or use normalization, it's nice to have when you do need it mainly when signals are recorded too low. The automated faders are a godsend, that is where you can really tweak dynamics. I don't always do the first two steps before going to the mastering limiter, but it makes it easier and more reliable on the outcome when I do.

[mojobone]

I should clarify: my comments were in regards to the practice of "peak normalization", specifically normalizing to 0dbFS, (full scale) not digital gain changes in general. A gain change is often appropriate when a signal is captured at too low a level to mix with other signals, sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

[fullbirdmusic]

Kel, I was just reading Bob Katz's book again and he said that using Expanders (or upward compressors) will give your music some loudness and not squash it down like a traditional downward compressor. Try this: use the Limiter (not the adaptive limiter) in Logic and set your output level to -3dB. Next, set your lookahead time, make it fairly fast - like <1ms - and then set your gain to taste. Adjusting the release will bring up in volume those parts that are being limited after the gain reduction has taken place. The gain reduction meter should not be triggering all the time - every once in a while is the goal here - while making your gain changes sound as natural as possible. This plugin is probably better-suited to what you wanted to do with the normalization or the Adaptive Limiter.
Also, you could use an Expander in the same manner, but afterwards would probably need to use the limiter to bring up the reduced gain sections again - but I think the Limiter in this case will give you what you were looking for. I already found a good use for it. Hope this helps!

[jdhogg]

Kel, I was just reading Bob Katz's book again and he said that using Expanders (or upward compressors) will give your music some loudness and not squash it down like a traditional downward compressor. Try this: use the Limiter (not the adaptive limiter) in Logic and set your output level to -3dB. Next, set your lookahead time, make it fairly fast - like <1ms - and then set your gain to taste. Adjusting the release will bring up in volume those parts that are being limited after the gain reduction has taken place. The gain reduction meter should not be triggering all the time - every once in a while is the goal here - while making your gain changes sound as natural as possible. This plugin is probably better-suited to what you wanted to do with the normalization or the Adaptive Limiter.
Also, you could use an Expander in the same manner, but afterwards would probably need to use the limiter to bring up the reduced gain sections again - but I think the Limiter in this case will give you what you were looking for. I already found a good use for it. Hope this helps!

?

[jdhogg]

Good compressor resource here

http://www.ovnilab.com/faq.shtml

[Len911]

Did Bob Katz really say that an expander was an upward compressor? I always thought an expander decreased the signal by however much you set it and according to the threshold that was set. In other words, the signal below the threshold was decreased. I have an API gate, that is actually supposed to be an expander, or so I thought. I used to use it for a noise gate until the tube mic's noise or the furnace was as loud as the quieter vocal passages. I just looked up upward compressor, and the definition I saw said that they made sounds louder that were below the threshold. So there appears to be three different animals, compressor/limiter, expander, and finally an upward compressor. cl=above threshold, decrease gain, ex= below threshold decrease gain, upcom= below threshold increase gain. It's always been confusing for me to remember threshold/ratio stuff, I finally just got to the point I adjust the knobs by ear. I hope I didn't cause any more confusion. And upward compressor? I never heard of them before and I don't think I want to add one, it would just add to my confusion,lol!

Here is a perfect example of how I get so confused on this stuff,lol, if you are trying to figure out how an expander works, compare these two passages, one is from jdhogg's compressor link:

http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/gate.shtml

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/processing/expansion/

The first link uses the words "increase", while the second uses the terms, "reduced and downwards" when refering to expansion.


http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/processing/expansion/

[fullbirdmusic]

I may have confused myself with what Katz wrote, but I think so. I've been reading his book off and on for a couple days and there's a lot going on here lately, so it's possible I got some of the details incorrect. It may have been in the context of parallel compression that I remembered what I wrote above.
But jdhogg is good at pointing out what I'm doing wrong, so he can probably set us all straight
In any case, Katz's book, Mastering Audio is very in-depth and detailed and is worth a read to anyone recording or manipulating audio.

[Len911]

lol, it's too confusing for me, probably the last thing I need is Bob's book, I think i don't want to know, denial I suppose,heehee. So many things if I don't use it everyday, or really need to know, I am at the point I don't want to. I am getting too old, a few months back I had to learn corel videostudio, and the other day I went back and it took 2 hrs to figure out again how to replace the audio from the video so I could insert a different audio track. If you don't know you are looking for the term "split audio", it is impossible,lol! I think I might be veering off-subject so i'll shut up.