Logic Users... To Normalize or not to?

[k o star]

When I bounce out in Logic, there is a Normalize check box on the left hand side & it's usually automatically set to Normalize...

What are the advantages & disadvantages of using this?
I've read several articles talking abt Normalization like it's some sort of dirty word in mixing... am wondering if it's not good to use it... & if so, why?

K

[mazz]

My understanding of normalization is that it looks at the entire file and finds the highest level sample. It determines how far below 0db Full Scale that sample is and raises it, and the entire file, by that amount so that the highest peak just touches 0 dbFS. It's only a gain change, not a loudness function, or anything else.

The reason NOT to do it would be if you wanted to leave room for a mastering engineer to be able to do some gain work on the files. If everything was normalized to 0dbfs, then they'd have to do another gain change downward to leave themselves extra headroom for their processes. Every digital operation that anyone does to your files has a chance of leaving a little "fingerprint" on it and so the fewer destructive processes you put it through, the better.

Also, broadcast will often ask for files at 2 or 3 db below 0dbfs because they are often held to strict level standards, although I'm not sure how this has changed with the advent of digital TV.

Anyway, normalization doesn't really buy you anything, IMO.

Mazz

[k o star]

Thanks Mazz...
that's what I thought it does too...
Oh boy... looks like I'm gonna have to re-bounce out every one of my cues again... doh!!

What is the best way to control all volumes so that the levels stay at -3 for every track?
What if the composition is very dynamic?

K

[fullbirdmusic]

Kel - I normalize guitar tracks sometimes to give them some air, but rarely normalize the entire mix.

The thing is, you spent all that time mixing and getting levels right and then normalizing ruins it. It calculates the highest point, then raises the volume of the lowest points to the median. So it's a ratio of the highest to lowest points. That's why you'll see minor differences in normalizing bass tracks with high transient levels to its normalized version and guitar tracks normalized.

In the end, orchestral tracks (or even hybrid tracks) probably shouldn't be normalized to maintain their dynamic qualities. To get all tracks to -3 db, you could use a limiter on the master buss - but it's almost similar to normalizing! The adaptive limiter in Logic is pretty good for that. Or just use a compressor on the master buss. Be conservative.

[mazz]

Wes, as far as I know, normalization isn't a ratio, but a simple gain change of the same amount to every sample in the file. The software analyzes the highest peak and then changes the gain of everything the same amount based on how much gain change you choose, or how high you want the highest peak to be, it can be done to change the gain up or down.

Here's something I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_normalization

[fullbirdmusic]

Thanks mazz. I didn't realize that Normalization was the same amount of gain applied across the file. I also don't know if the part about normalizing twice in the article is accurate. At least not in Logic. It will do it all in one pass, or upon bouncing.

I don't normalize anything really anymore. I've noticed that my tracks become louder, but not necessarily more pleasant to listen to.

Bob Katz's book about Mastering Audio has some great explanations on what Normalization will do to an audio file and what to look for in getting your mixes to sound great with no compression and minimal limiting. Not to hijack the thread, but one of the techniques he suggested was to try and not use ANY compression on any track and attempt to mix that way. And, in the end, if you need volume to add some limiting or compression. I tried mixing a track like that and must say it sounds excellent! It's worth a try; but probably not for orchestral stuff since I tend to not use compressors there anyway.

Thanks for the article, mazz!

[mazz]

Wes, actually Logic is probably doing two passes with normalization, it's just doing it in the background, because it needs to know the highest peak before it can do normalization.

Compression has become an effect, which was not it's original intended usage, but as soon as Geoff Emerick squashed Ringo's drumkit mic, a new era had begun!!!

I think it's a good idea to mix with as little compression as possible and get the mix to sound awesome and then apply the compression to give it a little extra "juice", but only if necessary and if it fits the genre and intended usage. Our mixes will probably get squashed anyway when they're broadcast.

So to speak to the thread: normalization isn't really all that necessary these days.

Cheers!

Mazz

[k o star]

Thanks Wes...

Thanks for the link Mazz...

Looks pretty technical... em
If Normalization helps to even out a drastically dynamic piece so that the softest & the loudest parts are closer... then... it might be useful if I'm tryna achieve leveling a dynamic piece I think?
Cos... after bouncing out a track, I open it in another system & bring down the highest peak vol to -3db...
& the problem I faced before was that when I do that, the softest part of the cue becomes way too soft...
Correct me if I'm wrong but this might serve a purpose with what I'm tryna achieve...
First, I normalize the track... so all parts are evenly close to 0db...
Then I open it in an Audio editor & bring the highest part down to -3db...
Would that be a good method? compared to drawing all the soft levels up in Logic...
Would I be messing up my mixes with this method?

Is there a better way to even the levels of an extremely dynamic piece?

K

[fullbirdmusic]

No sweat.

I don't think you'll be "messing up your mixes," but I wouldn't do that. I personally would probably get the best levels I can on all tracks, then use the Adaptive Limiter on the master buss - IF that were my purpose.

Dynamics are a great thing to have in all tracks. If you have less than 3dB of dynamics, it's too squashed. BUT - you can do some "fader riding," as Katz talks about in his book. This is simply recording a track onto another while adjusting its volume fader in realtime while anticipating the dynamic changes. This will probably be your most musical and effective route instead of slamming the master buss or the entire mix.

HTH

[k o star]

No sweat.

I don't think you'll be "messing up your mixes," but I wouldn't do that. I personally would probably get the best levels I can on all tracks, then use the Adaptive Limiter on the master buss - IF that were my purpose.

Dynamics are a great thing to have in all tracks. If you have less than 3dB of dynamics, it's too squashed. BUT - you can do some "fader riding," as Katz talks about in his book. This is simply recording a track onto another while adjusting its volume fader in realtime while anticipating the dynamic changes. This will probably be your most musical and effective route instead of slamming the master buss or the entire mix.

HTH

Thank U Wes... I think I know what to do then =)