great Presidential speech

[mojobone]

Does anybody else get the impression that Jon Fehery's praising Joe Wilson with faint damnation in this?http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/10/ ... dex.htmlIn any case, not covering illegal/undocumented immigrants isn't a realistic option; who wants to see polio and tuberculosis make a comeback? These folks are getting healthcare they don't pay for already-the idea here is to get them out of the emergency rooms; that alone will substantially decrease costs for those who pay, so even if you don't support it for humanitarian reasons, it's still the sensible thing to do..

[squids]

Sept 12, 2009, 10:41am, drew wrote:Sept 12, 2009, 8:33am, ggalen wrote:Drew,The people, like Sarah Palin, who said there would be "death panels" to pull the plug on seniors were lying and distorting the facts. There is not, nor have there ever been, plans to have panels designed to euthanize senior citizens.You do know that, right? If you don't, then I understand your last post in a new light.Glenn, I don't listen to Palin as much as the liberal press does, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they want to euthanize senior citizens. You could prove me wrong on that if it has happened. As I stated above I listen to what O says, he's the only one that matters to me and my family right now. Several months ago he was asked by a woman about her 100 year old mother who needed a pace maker. The first doc refused, too old. They consulted another who met her mother, loved her spirit for life and did the surgery, now 105 the old mom is alive and loving it. What would he do?He said 'blah, blah, hope & change, you can't use empathy, just too much to consider, there will be predetermined procedures to follow "sometimes you just gotta give 'em a pain pill instead." Yes, his words in quotes! You do know that, right?The lapdogs have tried to bury this line just like they tried with his "spread the wealth" line.Anyway, that's what they mean by a death panel. You decide on paper who has reached the end of their effective life. NO EMPATHY, NO APPEAL! Just drug them til they die, which is how many terminal patients are treated now when that's what they themselves decide. My family went through this about a year and a half ago with our mom, because a second doc stepped in (with very minor treatment) she is still alive and well too. The second doc will NOT be an option under the house plan. You don't have to call it a death panel, people are just trying to drive it home before it's too late.Funny, hard line rules, no empathy in medical treatment but when it come to the constitution and supreme court judges..... you do know that, right?Obviously, I could go on about Palin all day, but you and I don't have to worry about her, it's Biden who is second in command, yet the press publishes waaaay more of what she says because it's Biden who is ridiculously incompetent (my opinion). But if I had to chose between calenders I'd pick a Palin over a Biden, I'm a lost cause when it comes to pretty ladies, my problem is that ALL ladies are pretty to me... when they take my arm, allow me to guide them with my hand on their lower back, give me a hug, wrap their arms...What were we talking about?My 83-year-old father-in-law with "great spirit" had double bypass because some doc who wanted money decided he had the 'right attitude'.He's dead now. And it wasn't pleasant watching him go either.There is no doctor on this planet who can ethically take on someone over the age of 80 years old without knowing in his heart of hearts that he's most likely going to kill his patient, either on the table or within months due to the tremendous strain on the body during surgeries of the sort we're discussing.This shit jes pisses me off.And as for the south, I only know folks who know how to talk trash with a silver spoon, not a fire hose. Slinging names on a public forum, especially about such hot issues as are being discussed here, only cheapens the discussion and inflames an already dicey discourse.Ern and y'all might know how to call a spade a spade but in my opinion, people won't hear the truth one minute before they're gonna hear it and they'll never wanna hear it when it's couched with insults. And I'm not aiming this jes at you, Drew, honey, it's right at Ern too. I hated the way Americans treated each other under the last president. Claiming that anyone who doesn't agree with 'us' is 'un-american' or 'not a patriot' is outrageous and dangerous. I see more of that happening now and it seems to be coming from the right wing more than the left. Do they really think their constituents are so uneducated and ignorant that name-calling is high art?If we don't start putting politics aside, the least of our worries will be what sort of slander and libel we're engaged in this week.

[drew]

A few more good articles:Obama to Republicans: Where's YOUR solution to health reform?http://www.fark.com/cgi/vidplayer.pl?ID ... epublicans to Obama: "Here are 35 different health care proposals we've come up with this year alone that the Democrats wouldn't give a single hearing for." Obama *inserts fingers*: "LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... lans/Sorry for all the fun I'm having guys, been stuck in a hotel on a rainy weekend. I'd rather be out riding my bike.Obama owns himself: Obama in 2006 "raising the debt ceiling (by Bush) shows a failure of leadership." Obama in 2009: "We must raise the debt ceiling." (thehill.com)Nancy Pelosi says that half of the health care bill will be paid by "cutting government waste in medicare." If that's the case, then shouldn't we be upset that the government is wasting $500 Billion dollars right now?(cnsnews.com)

[drew]

Squids, our posts crossed. I sure am glad I didn't do any name calling in it, I couldn't live with myself if I hurt your feelings.

[mojobone]

Sept 13, 2009, 6:23pm, drew wrote:Obama owns himself: Obama in 2006 "raising the debt ceiling (by Bush) shows a failure of leadership." Obama in 2009: "We must raise the debt ceiling." (thehill.com)Jeez, did something happen between 2006 and 2009 to change O'Bama's mind? I seem to recall hearing something about a massive mortgage crisis sparking a credit freeze, which then led to....ah, never mind.

[ernstinen]

Sept 13, 2009, 6:28pm, drew wrote:Squids, our posts crossed. I sure am glad I didn't do any name calling in it, I couldn't live with myself if I hurt your feelings.Me neither, Squidly! Ya know I love ya! MY dear old Dad is going on 89, completely out of it, and WANTS to die. It's really sad.I have never read any evidence about a "death panel," but if a person wants to pass on, and there's no chance of his/her living any longer, who's to choose? The government? NO! The person who is suffering. I'd say let him/her choose. --- My Dad told me personally, "When I tell everyone to pull the plug, PULL IT!" So no politics about this stuff --- it's extremely personal. No federal government rights, no state's rights, just a personal connection between him/her and their God.I believe that God is WAY beyond any government, and if HE is willing to have someone "pull the plug" because of enough suffering, judge not lest ye be judged.Ern

[ernstinen]

Sept 13, 2009, 8:31pm, mojobone wrote:Sept 13, 2009, 6:23pm, drew wrote:Obama owns himself: Obama in 2006 "raising the debt ceiling (by Bush) shows a failure of leadership." Obama in 2009: "We must raise the debt ceiling." (thehill.com)Jeez, did something happen between 2006 and 2009 to change O'Bama's mind? I seem to recall hearing something about a massive mortgage crisis sparking a credit freeze, which then led to....ah, never mind. Ah, DON'T "never mind!" If you can believe it, I'm a fiscal conservative. It's all a matter of priorities!I'm AGAINST raising the national debt.Whatever happened to "getting out of Iraq & Afghanistan?" The country overwhelmingly voted for Obama on this platform, and now it's "More boots on the ground." I don't understand the logic. The Russians couldn't conquer Afghanistan in over 8 years, and here we are 8 years later playing the same game.I told my Vietnamese barber almost 10 years ago "Iraq is going to turn into another Viet Nam War!" He said, "No, completely different circumstances." --- He may have been right about that (?), but Afghanistan will BE another NAM. Anyone who thinks differently has rejected history. Afghanistan hasn't been conquered since Alexander The Great around 330 B.C.!I guess I can't be pigeonholed in politics, can I? Sorry for my rants --- I'll post some music as soon as I can! God Bless,Ern

[drew]

Sept 13, 2009, 10:02pm, ernstinen wrote:Whatever happened to "getting out of Iraq & Afghanistan?" The country overwhelmingly voted for Obama on this platform, and now it's "More boots on the ground." I don't understand the logic. Ern, I don't recall the Dems ever wanting out of Afghan, to the contrary, Obama (even Kerry back in the previous election) demanded that Bush pull the assets from Iraq and go in full in Afghan. They have always supported this war (well, as much as war can be supported).

[ernstinen]

Sept 14, 2009, 4:49am, drew wrote:Sept 13, 2009, 10:02pm, ernstinen wrote:Whatever happened to "getting out of Iraq & Afghanistan?" The country overwhelmingly voted for Obama on this platform, and now it's "More boots on the ground." I don't understand the logic. Ern, I don't recall the Dems ever wanting out of Afghan, to the contrary, Obama (even Kerry back in the previous election) demanded that Bush pull the assets from Iraq and go in full in Afghan. They have always supported this war (well, as much as war can be supported).Maybe you're correct, Drew. I shoulda voted for Ron Paul! BTW, I was FOR going full blast into Afghanistan after 9/11, not Iraq. That was a HUGE blunder, but now I believe it's too late. WAY too late. The bad guys are so embedded in the mountains by now, it's just impossible to win a ground war. Maybe unmanned aircraft could do it, but at the cost of untold amount of innocent lives. It's a true quandary ---Ern

[heinsite]

i started this thread with the hopes that it would flush out good points and great entertainment--haven't been disappointed in the least.as i've said, let's wait to see the bill, and if it's BETTER than what we have now. i do carry hope that it will be better. it's in OUR hands and the people we've elected, regardless if some are idiots, crooks, fair and caring, or not. that's how we still work.cheers,wh