great Presidential speech

[ggalen]

Drew,This is getting silly.Look at your post. I asked what YOU think. But you only said people today can go to the emergency room. You never said what you think about that, now did you?So how does that answer the first three questions?

[heinsite]

yes billy--well, you already know how dense i think you are...yeah, you're missing something for sure, but what? i'm sure some of the others will tell us...this is fun--i've actually posted something that people have got into...LOL.

[mojobone]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/18/de ... topstories

[mojobone]

Sept 18, 2009, 9:43am, billg wrote:In regards to the Wilson "you lie" thing, I haven't been able to understand where the republican beef was with what Obama said in his speech. This from factcheck.org explains it the way I understood it before, during, and after the speech. I though it was all pretty clear. I must be really dense and missing something because I can't believe I'm so much smarter than a lot of these people.http://factcheck.org/2009/09/immigrants ... surance/So Joe Wilson is not only ill-mannered, he's also wrong.

[llama]

Sept 18, 2009, 10:44am, mojobone wrote:Sept 18, 2009, 9:43am, billg wrote:In regards to the Wilson "you lie" thing, I haven't been able to understand where the republican beef was with what Obama said in his speech. This from factcheck.org explains it the way I understood it before, during, and after the speech. I though it was all pretty clear. I must be really dense and missing something because I can't believe I'm so much smarter than a lot of these people.http://factcheck.org/2009/09/immigrants ... surance/So Joe Wilson is not only ill-mannered, he's also wrong.Of course Obama has the solution to Wilson's dislike of insuring illegal aliens....Give the illegals amnesty, let them become citizens, then give them insurance......WOW!!! Great idea MR Pres..http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/se ... _position1

[jonathanm]

Sept 18, 2009, 10:44am, mojobone wrote:Sept 18, 2009, 9:43am, billg wrote:In regards to the Wilson "you lie" thing, I haven't been able to understand where the republican beef was with what Obama said in his speech. This from factcheck.org explains it the way I understood it before, during, and after the speech. I though it was all pretty clear. I must be really dense and missing something because I can't believe I'm so much smarter than a lot of these people.http://factcheck.org/2009/09/immigrants ... surance/So Joe Wilson is not only ill-mannered, he's also wrong.What factcheck says is the same thing Wilson said: There's no built-in mechanism for verifying citizenship. It's up to a commissioner to figure out how, or if, to do that. So, very likely, it will not be verified if a method is not prescribed. Here's factcheck's quote:The bill does not provide coverage for illegal immigrants, but there’s no enforcement mechanism explicitly specified. The newly created Health Choices Commissioner would be responsible for deciding how applicants for the affordability credits would need to prove their eligibility.

[billg]

Wow, that was sort of a cherry picked line . . .here's my cut and paste; "the federal option is government-administered, but it is not government-subsidized except through the "affordability credits" that the bill says may not be paid to illegal immigrants."And directly out of the bill it says that affordability credits "CAN NOT BE PAID TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS" . . . & you left out the part that says they will be required to have insurance. The way I see it is we can either pay for the emergency room treatment of illegal immigrants, like we do now through higher healthcare costs for the rest of us, we can require them to have insurance, or . . . what? Unless all of the illegal immigrants go home either willingly or by force this proposal is the only way to stop the financial drain they impose on our already scewed up healthcare system. No one that walks into an emergency room will have to produce a green card, only a medical insurance card. no card? they will be treated, and then fined.Here. I've extracted the very simple gist of the whole thing from factcheck;"the bill technically requires illegal immigrants to obtain health insurance, but that’s hardly a benefit and certainly not a cost to taxpayers. In fact, under this interpretation, they could be fined if they fail to obtain it . . . The House bill also contains no restrictions on undocumented immigrants buying insurance policies through the new Health Insurance Exchange if they are not already covered. However, they would have to buy it at their own expense, not with any subsidies paid for by taxpayers. They receive no government funds for this and cost the taxpayers nothing – and that wouldn’t change under the proposed bill . . . If the exchange includes a federal option, illegal immigrants could also participate under the current House bill. But again, this is a matter of paying for their own insurance out of pocket, not receiving taxpayer funds – the federal option is government-administered, but it is not government-subsidized except through the "affordability credits" that the bill says may not be paid to illegal immigrants."

[mojobone]

Or, I suppose, we could simply herd them all into camps...sounds horribly expensive without some kind of...final solution. Unless we could sell them to China, don't they need more cheap labor there? No?

[jonathanm]

Sorry, Bill. I wasn't trying to cherry-pick. If I've gotten it wrong, my bad, and I do want to understand the truth. I'm still not seeing, though, that what I posted was incorrect. There is no mechanism for checking citizenship, as far as I can tell. If that's correct, then Wilson was correct (though he was absolutely wrong in the way he voiced it) in saying that the bill in practice doesn't exclude illegals.Also, the part about requiring illegals to have insurance, and fining them if they show up at ER's seems a bit strange. Do we know who these people are? If so, instead of fining them or requiring they buy something, could we just deport them? (I'm not sniping, but asking a real, if perhaps simplistic, question; I have no understanding of what it takes to deport someone.) I think it's worth asking: can we really expect to force illegals to pay fines and purchase something on a monthly basis?

[llama]

Sept 18, 2009, 1:25pm, mojobone wrote:Or, I suppose, we could simply herd them all into camps...sounds horribly expensive without some kind of...final solution. Unless we could sell them to China, don't they need more cheap labor there? No?Nice hyperbole LOL!!! No, pretty simple...Punish the companies that employ illegals and the magnet is turned off. People will leave on their own accord.Sorry to disappoint Mojo...Anyone who doesn't agree with Obama is EVIL!!! EEVVVIIILLL I tell ya..ha ha ha.. Derek