The things we can learn from our children

[mazz]

The "art vs. commerce" argument notwithstanding, you might consider doing your "artist" music under a different name such as "DJ re" or something that reflects the vibe of that music.

Then you have two websites with different personalities to fit each aspect of your music. They can certainly link to each other more or less prominently depending on your vision. Web hosting is cheap and domain names are cheap so it's not that big of a deal to set up the infrastructure.

I think in order to do both musics successfully it may be necessary to switch hats and even personas.

Food for thought.

Mazz

[remmet]

I appreciate the thoughtful, and thought-provoking, comments. It's funny - Back in the mid-80s (after the Zappa job had ended), I worked for a film company in a non-musical capacity. I recall that the company wanted Brian Eno to score one of its movies (either Clan of the Cave Bear or 9 1/2 Weeks, I forget which), with the provision that Eno would have to relocate to LA for the duration of his work on the film. But Eno refused the offer because he simply did not want to hang out in LA. I remember thinking that most composers would move to Siberia for the chance to score a major film, and here was Eno saying "no thanks". So on one hand, I admired him for whatever integrity his decision demonstrated. On the other hand, I thought such a decision would be insane for most composers who have to make a living.

So a large part of me wants to be able to do both - make art and make a living. But for many years, the balance has been skewed toward the latter, and the former has gotten shortchanged. I have the choice and power to remedy that inbalance. I just have to stop procrastinating (right, Chuck?) and get it done.

In response to something Matto said about not competing very well against those who are writing to their strength, I hear what you're saying. But on the other hand, I'm not doing too badly as far as getting forwards and placements. Probably 2/3rds of what I submit gets forwarded, and my placements seem to be growing steadily. So I don't think my ambivalence is necessarily hurting the writing quality. And one thing I've realized for a long time is that whatever I'm working on, it always, without exception, teaches me something new and allows me to stretch in new ways.

I think the suggestions about clearly defining what hat you're wearing at any given time is a good one. We all have competing demands on our time and energy, but part of life is finding ways to create a workable balance.

Anyway, I appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. I know I'm not the only one who deals with these issues from time to time.

Richard

[Kolstad]

I think of art as creating something meaningful to yourself, and the commercial as something that is meaningful for others. So for me, the twain is actually nothing but a doublesided mirror. Unfortunately, when you look outwards towards people, you see yourself, and the same goes when people look at you, they see themselves. There's really no connection between art and commerciality, because there was no separation in the first place. I believe if you do what you love, to the best of your abilities, creating something meaningful for yourself, it will make sense to others, and therefore potentially be "commercial" in the sense of being meningful to others. There are some hard truths involved here.. it's actually not the piece in itself that's connecting to people, it's YOU who's connecting to people by doing something that means something to you, not because what you do means something to them. It's always the human factor, not tools, technology, music, art.. being smart about music, your website ect. is all about doing something authentic, not pretending authenticity exists as a noun, but practicing authenticity as a verb..

sorryforbabbling

[mazz]

To follow on your reasoning: if in fact our authenticity is "encoded" into the music, then does it follow that our success is limited by how much of our authenticity we hold back in our commercial ventures, if any?

In other words, if we don't put 100% of ourselves into our works because we are holding something back or judging the commercial side to be somehow "less than" the art, are we ultimately limiting the end result?

The only judgement that exists about any artistic or commercial venture is in the creator itself, the output is what it is. If the creator sees it as all equal, then what's the problem?

[cardell]

This is one of the ways music teaches me about life: "Should I be my [unique, true] self or an altered more likable, socially acceptable (expected) version of myself?"

Stuart

And...? I'm guessing you haven't found the answer, only more questions.

Reminds me of a Zen saying that goes something like "Believe a man who says he is seeking the truth, Disbelieve the man who claims to have found it."

Yes, yes...I'm finding that it's a question of balance.

Stuart

[pedrocosta]

Brilliant thread!
I agree with Mazz that even within the confines of a listing we will all bring our own individuality to the tracks.
Now on the artist vs writing for others debate. I think the idea of compartmentalizing projects works. A couple of years ago I ran into the problem that my ideas are all over the place, i.e. not genre specific. But I had a lot of ideas in the Electronic vein so I created a separate artist moniker for that music "Fetal Pulse". Everything else is Pedro Costa. But I have thought of further compartmentalize. For the purpose of the Taxi type business you can have an artist group site. Where all the artists aka YOU havce relevant tracks for licensing. Dunno, just brainstorming out loud here for myself as well.
Again, really good thread, very relevant to what I have been thinking about lately as well.

[Russell Landwehr]

In other words, if we don't put 100% of ourselves into our works because we are holding something back or judging the commercial side to be somehow "less than" the art, are we ultimately limiting the end result?

I am NOT a bible thumper, but one of my favorite "truths" is:

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might."

rl

[cardell]

You know, I've had people (friends even) call what I do: 'musical whoring'. Not that it bothers me...

These people are jealous. You'll be able to tell by their response to this statement:
"I'm working on something that could use your talent and there's $300 in it for you."

.. it's actually not the piece in itself that's connecting to people, it's YOU who's connecting to people by doing something that means something to you...

Yes, you understand!
That's why one person will move you singing a particular song but someone else (singing the same song) won't.

To follow on your reasoning: if in fact our authenticity is "encoded" into the music, then does it follow that our success is limited by how much of our authenticity we hold back in our commercial ventures, if any?

From what I've been able to observe: Musical success & commercial success are separate issues. Sometimes they align, sometimes they don't. It often seems to boil down to objectives/goals.

Stuart

[Kolstad]

To follow on your reasoning: if in fact our authenticity is "encoded" into the music, then does it follow that our success is limited by how much of our authenticity we hold back in our commercial ventures, if any?

In other words, if we don't put 100% of ourselves into our works because we are holding something back or judging the commercial side to be somehow "less than" the art, are we ultimately limiting the end result?

The only judgement that exists about any artistic or commercial venture is in the creator itself, the output is what it is. If the creator sees it as all equal, then what's the problem?

I do believe it's very much in the way we see things, yes. This is not that different from a lot of the pro advice out there. Do the things you do best as your authenticity will shine through that. But it's more of an approach to the question, than it's an answer that should be held accountable to a specific causality. You can't say that just because a client made you do this piece, and you hate it, that then you are not authentic. You are authentic in that situation because you are connecting to others through music, where you agreed to help someone out by doing your work. It never hurts to explore new things, take the best and make it your own. That's authentic too. You just need to realize what you are doing, when you do it, and write it off on the right account.. In that moment you are trying to make sense to the person you are helping, and yourself, trying to figure out what to include in that piece and if you can twist it just a little bit in your direction too

I've had to quarrel a lot with this question too. But where I've landed.. when commercial are put up against art, to me, that's an ideological framing. Money is evil, so therefore it's evil to chase it. This can be true, if money is all you're after. But you really don't have to use politics as your primary frame of reference for making sense of the world and what you do. There are alternatives to that, and we are free to choose belief systems that works for us, rather than against us, that's all I'm saying. If making money and being commercial coincides, we can't be held responsible, as these are different things. You can be as commercial you like, without ever seeing a dime.. that's what IDOL is all about

But that's why this is such a great thread. It matters a great deal where one land on this question, because it's at the core of what values we bring to our music.. if we don't bring value, what entitles us to get value? And value is ultimately made from bringing something unique to the table..

Thats actually the tricky question.. how can something be unique? To whom? When?
Answering that is your sales proposition, your usp (unique selling point), and your elevator speech
And I believe that applies equally to BOTH art and business..

Maybe that is the real issue behind the original question. How can I create something that has value both to me and to others?

When you have done things for a while, you get bored and want to do something else, because it's not unique/fresh to yourself anymore (while it still can be to others). That situation can feel like a struggle between art and commerce, because you want to do something new, but what you already have done is still in demand.. maybe that's why having a hit can feel like "selling out"

[cardell]

It matters a great deal where one land on this question, because it's at the core of what values we bring to our music.. if we don't bring value, what entitles us to get value? And value is ultimately made from bringing something unique to the table..

Wow, now I'm impressed!

Stuart