The things we can learn from our children

[remmet]

And a corollary to the thread title: The things we can learn from our colleagues!

[mojobone]

I do believe it's very much in the way we see things, yes. This is not that different from a lot of the pro advice out there. Do the things you do best as your authenticity will shine through that. But it's more of an approach to the question, than it's an answer that should be held accountable to a specific causality. You can't say that just because a client made you do this piece, and you hate it, that then you are not authentic. You are authentic in that situation because you are connecting to others through music, where you agreed to help someone out by doing your work. It never hurts to explore new things, take the best and make it your own. That's authentic too. You just need to realize what you are doing, when you do it, and write it off on the right account.. In that moment you are trying to make sense to the person you are helping, and yourself, trying to figure out what to include in that piece and if you can twist it just a little bit in your direction too

I've had to quarrel a lot with this question too. But where I've landed.. when commercial are put up against art, to me, that's an ideological framing. Money is evil, so therefore it's evil to chase it. This can be true, if money is all you're after. But you really don't have to use politics as your primary frame of reference for making sense of the world and what you do. There are alternatives to that, and we are free to choose belief systems that works for us, rather than against us, that's all I'm saying. If making money and being commercial coincides, we can't be held responsible, as these are different things. You can be as commercial you like, without ever seeing a dime.. that's what IDOL is all about

But that's why this is such a great thread. It matters a great deal where one land on this question, because it's at the core of what values we bring to our music.. if we don't bring value, what entitles us to get value? And value is ultimately made from bringing something unique to the table..

That's actually the tricky question.. how can something be unique? To whom? When?
Answering that is your sales proposition, your usp (unique selling point), and your elevator speech
And I believe that applies equally to BOTH art and business..

Maybe that is the real issue behind the original question. How can I create something that has value both to me and to others?

When you have done things for a while, you get bored and want to do something else, because it's not unique/fresh to yourself anymore (while it still can be to others). That situation can feel like a struggle between art and commerce, because you want to do something new, but what you already have done is still in demand.. maybe that's why having a hit can feel like "selling out"

There's a lot of wisdom in this post, but something bothers me; it comes up now and then in my ministry.

"Money is evil, so therefore it's evil to chase it."

It's often misquoted in English, that "Money is the root of all evil", the true quote is that, "The love of money is the root of all evil." That's a very different thing; people need money to live, since we can no longer be hunter-gatherers or subsistence farmers. The evil is in loving money for its own sake, putting money above your religion, your family and your community. Do that and you risk ending up working for Goldman Sachs with an eternal reward that involves roasting slowly on a spit. I believe a loving creator wants us to be happy and wealthy, just not at the expense of others less fortunate.

[cardell]

There's a lot of wisdom in this post, but something bothers me; it comes up now and then in my ministry.

OK, now I'm curious: I always assumed the Reverend title was honorary with you...is it?

Stuart

[mojobone]

Nope. I'm an ordained minister since last December.

[cardell]

Nope. I'm an ordained minister since last December.

...now I'm impressed!

I'll PM you.

Stuart

[mojobone]

Really just a formality, since I was gonna preach, anyhow.

[rnrmachine]

Really just a formality, since I was gonna preach, anyhow.

ROFLMAO

Mojo is correct btw... it's the LOVE of money is the root of all evil... at least that's the way I was taught it. I remember it well. Here's why I remember it so well if anyone is curious.

When I was 17 I ran into my father (my parents divorced when I was 4-5 but I saw my father often when I was younger up too about 15-16-ish) at a park in Sellersville just by chance, or maybe fate, who knows, not I anyway. I was at a birthday party in the park for a friend. Anyway I was walking off with my GF to get some "alone time" and after a few minutes of walking I ran into my Dad. I forget why but I went off with my Dad, I hadn't seen him in a while so that's my best guess why he and I decided to spend some alone time together. OR maybe it was fate knockin' on the door. Anyway, we had a long talk about a ton of things and during this conversation he tells me how he owes the mob 10,000 dollars and he didn't know what to do. No clue how he ended up in that situation, I didn't ask and he didn't say so I can only guess and no need to tell you my guesses here. So I told him I would try to help and he started crying. I was only 17, just turned 17 too, in August, but I worked in the morning in a foundry, school in the afternoon, and the evening in a shoe store. My Dad didn't know this and acted proud when I told him. It was nice to see him proud of me. SOO... I told him to send what money he could to my Mom for her to hold for us and he did. So I started saving what I could and the time came... he called me and ask for the money. I went to my Mom and she said she spent it. I never told her what is was for, I just told her it was coming and she needed to hold it for him, so he wouldn't spend it. Well, she spent it, (she told me he never, or rarely paid child support and figured she'd use it) it was barely 2-3grand, maybe 4grand, if I remember right so we were WAY short anyway, but now we were screwed. My Dad had a history of "hospital visits" probably due to drug use. This I was told while I was growing up so I told him to go hide on suicide watch in the hospital and buy us more time... God knows we needed it desperately now. Sunday morning, May 11th 1986 my Mom walked in the door with her future new husband, my future new step father and proceeded to tell me my father was dead... he committed suicide. I knew it wasn't true... I knew better. In the newspaper;

A 42-year-old former Quakertown man was found dead in a bathroom at Norristown State Hospital Saturday night, the victim of an apparent suicide.

State police at Limerick said John Steskal, whose last address was the Patty-O Motel, Quakertown, was found in the bathroom of Building 12 of the hospital in West Norriton Township at 7 p.m.He apparently stood on a large garbage can, tied a belt over a pole between toilet stalls and hanged himself, according to reports.

Steskal was discovered by another patient. Hospital personnel, using cardiopulmonary resuscitation, were unable to revive the man.

Police said the incident did not appear to involve foul play and that Steskal had recently spoken of being afraid of returning to jail. However, police said there was no outstanding action pending against him to their knowledge.

An autopsy has been scheduled to determine the exact cause and time of death.

No one cared... no one gave a shit. AND I know for a fact my Dad was not ready to commit suicide, NOR was he afraid of going to jail except maybe as a by product of owing the mob $$$ and in jail they could obvious reach him there, but he sure was afraid of the "mob" he owed money too. I got a lawyer to do something about it and after a short time he got back to me... he talked me into "letting it go" saying my Dad killed himself and that's that.

EDIT: It occurred to me that it might not seem too valid IF I am the only one who knew this, but I am not, my Father's X wife knew, but I only knew she knew after he died. She told me I would have to get an attorney because as his X, she couldn't.

Some days I wish I had a "Truth Button" so I could just hit it and know the answers to all the questions I have, but I don't need no truth button for this, or for... the LOVE of money is the root of all evil... sure there are other loves that can turn evil too so the only thing in question there is the "all" part imho haha.

Also, how can something that will cloth you, feed you, house you, entertain you, save others from a lack of those things... be evil? Money is NOT evil!! That's what people tell you that want your money so you'll give it to God... and they just happen to be in charge of "God's money" so they know where to best use it... hahahaha I grew up around a load of people that fell for that crap. as a matter of fact, I have seen with my own eyes what the lack of money does to people... that's evil.

Anyway, back on topic... It all can be one website. Just the bio should be like a presidential museum, linked on the "shopping center" website. This way anyone shopping in your virtual store can read up on you if they choose. Possibly title the link "About the artist" or whatever floats your boat. Also, when you wanna link your bio, that personal achievements page, just link directly to it and have other links there so AFTER they read your bio they can easily, in one click, head into your store and start browsing.

Of course, like I said the main site should be a shopping center, well organized. Decide on how is best to organize and go with it. I would imagine follow the general trend of libraries perhaps? I would think you should have available "sort by" - "vibe and or mood" - "description" - "genre" - "dated sounds" - etc...

Good luck in all you do!!!

John

PS. GRATS Pastor Mojo!!!

[cardell]

Oh man, I'm so sorry to read that sad story John.

Mojo is correct btw... it's the LOVE of money is the root of all evil... at least that's the way I was taught it. I remember it well.

Love's the wrong word here, IMHO. There is NO love involved in this scenario. I guess obsession is a better choice, but the root problem is greed.

Stuart

[rnrmachine]

Oh man, I'm so sorry to read that sad story John.

Mojo is correct btw... it's the LOVE of money is the root of all evil... at least that's the way I was taught it. I remember it well.

Love's the wrong word here, IMHO. There is NO love involved in this scenario. I guess obsession is a better choice, but the root problem is greed.

Stuart

Thanks Stuart, it's bummer but it's been so many years ago now and so many others have sad stories that I almost didn't write it, then almost deleted it, but in the end I felt my Dad deserved a little "truth" even if it's only on his memory. It's the anniversary of my Fathers death that brings it up mostly. I took it a bit rough when I saw him in the coffin... like most people do when they lose a loved one I imagine.

Also, I agree that love seems to be a poor choice of words in that saying since love should be considered on the side of good only imho... BUT if ya follow the bible, Jesus did say something to the effect of, "If you love your own you have done nothing, even satan loves his own demons." Paraphrased obviously, but that has always made me think about love in a different way then what's usual.

Maybe Mojo can shed some light on that as I haven't studied the bible in MANY years although I used to study it like I was cramming for a test hehe.

John

[mojobone]

I'll confess I didn't take the extra step of memorizing all of the scriptures before getting ordained, but it's said that the devil himself can quote scripture to his ends, so no single Bible quote should be considered infallible.