Working with another writer

[milfus]

nah steve, you pretty much just doppleganged my view =0)

[squids]

Jun 12, 2008, 12:45pm, hummingbird wrote:Asking a lyricist to rewrite lyrics is like asking a musician to change the melody. Since I am a fairly good lyricist, I think it's important to figure out the lyric before the music writing starts. Assuming we're starting from scratch. Not that there can't be a tweak here and there. But the structure & form & craft of the lyric is going to support the composition of the music, methinks.I think it helps that you're an accomplished singer, too. Makes for written lines that another singer can easily translate into their own style without a lotta rewrite.

[sgs4u]

Jun 12, 2008, 12:56pm, milfus wrote:I am really against this writing to someones best shot, just because it is so limiting, no where else does this model work, you cant build a back half of a car to a front half and just hope, both need to take from the other to make one big cohesive creation. For the good of the whole. prosody is music and lyrics working together, not one working with the other.Nice analogy! Even if the motor comes from Detroit, and the body comes from Japan, there's still a lot of tweaking to make em work together, as powerfully as is mechanically possible.

[milfus]

ah well, im a little intimidated to try and throw a tip at ya, but what I do to go out from under those, is you write like, the brother or sister, of that song, with the new stuff in mind, and you can steal all you want, cause you know you arent releasing the old song, but itll be just diff enough to break your muscle memory *shrug* works for me.

[sgs4u]

I had to look that up. Thought you were being confrontatonal at first! Jun 12, 2008, 12:59pm, milfus wrote:nah steve, you pretty much just doppleganged my view =0)

[milfus]

hehehehehehe, thats it, someones gettin a noogy*snicker*

[milfus]

nah, just summed up, i decided to only work with people i think DO good work, not people that just HAVE good work, cause i wanna merge, not add on.

[squids]

Jun 12, 2008, 12:58pm, sgs4u wrote:I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying Squids. Such is my lot. Whenever I post, I seem to be preconceived as confrontational. I don't like the conflict part either, or especially hanging on to things the way they exist, simply because that's the way it was written. I enjoy people who are willing to discuss/argue their points, or why a thing is written a certain way. To me that's the exchange of feelings that help me uncover the satisfaction and advantages of co-writing. The feeling of being stuck, because someone is unwilling to envision a new creation (the result of what happens when 2 minds cooperate), is what I was referring to. When someone writes a lyric, it isn't a song to me. Nada. Not until there's a melody, and even then, without the whole production thing being complete, there's very little to either sell or promote. Maybe I'm so different that I need to start looking at that a lot more...Nope, it was my mistake, Steve. I see you as being honest and forthright, which can sometimes be considered blunt (and has on these boards from time to time). That isn't against my grain or really all that different from me, we use different styles is all. I get my stuff through honey, you get yours through very direct communication. I can do that too, it's jes not the cultural background I came from. I understand what you're saying about wanting to get un-stuck in a song. Personally, if I look at someone's lyric and I see somethin', I always ask if they've got a vision with it. I've learned that it's easier to influence them than to confront them if they're stuck. That's jes the way I work. It ain't everyone's way and I can see how it would seem like more work to do it the way I've learned. Your way is short, to the point, in some ways more professional in that it saves time/energy/expense. But there's a risk involved too if you've got someone who can't hear any changes but isn't willing to let go of a wasted vision that isn't going anywhere. If you're confrontational and can't get them to budge on the first shot, then it's pretty much over. The way I work is that over time, they'll consider other options without feeling forced. This way I still get to keep the lyrics I want, I jes don't always get them in the time frame I want. So I'm sorry for misunderstanding you. Or rather, stating my point badly.

[Casey H]

I know for me, the hardest part is letting go of my control freak nature. I'm sure I'm not the only one like that. (C'mon all you closet control freaks, just admit it!!)I have some successful co-writes but I have to say that they worked because one of us was the "control" person for that song-- i.e. I gave someone what I had and said, "do something with this" or vice-versa. And Chits you are right about the "too picky" thing... But it's hard to discriminate sometimes between the best application of the craft and just being difficult. We all have had our work inspected, dissected, rejected, etc and it spins our heads at times. Obviously, there is a point where it is "good enough". It also is an art to know the difference between something not being the way YOU might approach it and not being good. Not always easy...Another thing to look for in a co-writer is someone who will follow through on the commitment. Sometimes (though no bad intention) we all take on too much, say we want to work on something, but never get around to it. I know I've done that. (I've learned to just say no)... Casey

[liamkelly]

Jun 12, 2008, 1:44pm, hurowitz wrote:I know for me, the hardest part is letting go of my control freak nature. I'm sure I'm not the only one like that. You and me both, Case