Writing Hit Songs - Myths

[ciskokidd]

Boy this post has become a lightning rod!To me the proof is in the pudding. I'll respectfully use our good friend Hummingbird as an example.I have seen her music improve 100 fold over a few years. This was accomplished in my opinion by listening with an open mind, taking in the advice of people like Matto and Mazz, and sharpening her aim and abilities toward what the clients are asking for.So there it is, she is writing "for the market" and guess what? The market is responding. She now gets regular forwards, and has signed deals. In time those deals will lead to more and more placements.I guarantee you that if she wrote with no specific direction or aim she would not be where she is now.The key as Matt said is don't use this "HIT" argument as an excuse. Go out and write better and better songs. Aim them at the place you want them to go and the opportunities will arrive.All the best,Cisko

[sgs4u]

but Cisco, this thread didn't seem to be about writing with no specific direction...To me, it's been about discussing the guy's information in the book, and his views or opinions. You, Vikki, Matto, Mazz, & Andre are all doing fabulous work. There is no question why, any of you are doing well. I've just been noticing that it seems like people are responding to the thread, by trying to end the discussion, with some kind of slam dunk - "this is the truth, the way I see it," vibe. And there's nothing in the thread to suggest that TAXI is any less than perfectly qualified to help us move up to the next level. So there's no defence of Taxi, or screeners or anything necessary. Why do some of us feel compelled to pounce, as if there is something to pounce on? I'm not separating myself from this group, obviously, I'm as quick to argue as the next guy. Quote:Boy this post has become a lightning rod!To me the proof is in the pudding. I'll respectfully use our good friend Hummingbird as an example.I have seen her music improve 100 fold over a few years. This was accomplished in my opinion by listening with an open mind, taking in the advice of people like Matto and Mazz, and sharpening her aim and abilities toward what the clients are asking for.So there it is, she is writing "for the market" and guess what? The market is responding. She now gets regular forwards, and has signed deals. In time those deals will lead to more and more placements.I guarantee you that if she wrote with no specific direction or aim she would not be where she is now.The key as Matt said is don't use this "HIT" argument as an excuse. Go out and write better and better songs. Aim them at the place you want them to go and the opportunities will arrive.All the best,Cisko

[jchitty]

This business is so subjective. I've seen crap annoited as great, and truly great songs stay on the fringes. And luckily, I've also seen truly great songs rise to the top of the heap. I think people like to believe there is a formula for success....it makes them feel like they have control over their environment. Sure, if you work hard, learn how to network, have good dealings with people and write quality material, you may be rewarded.But there are lots of great musicians and songwriters who will never be rewarded because their songs just didn't jazz someone on the other end. I think the secret of getting your foot in the door is to write a song that grabs an artist (A&R rep, whatever) just at the right time. The stars have to line up in your favor. I know it's about hard work, but I think luck really plays a major role. Matt, Mazz, Dave and Hummingbird are all examples of great success and hard work, but I'm sure luck did help them a bit....their songs were perfectly on target for tv and film listings. Yes, their music is great too.You might have a song that artist A wouldn't even notice, but that Artist B has a fit over. I don't think writing songs is any different from appealing to people as a chef (Geo knows this).....some people order fish, and some people prefer beef.....you gotta give them what they want no matter how great the song is. "Great" is all relative.One reason I don't get too depressed when my songs aren't getting fowards is because I write a lot of songs....I really think it's the law of averages working in someone's favor....if you keep throwing those darts, you'll hit a target one day, well hopefully. And no, I don't consider myself a great songwriter, not YET anyway, hehe.And then from there, (if you finally get in the door) you have to learn to work in a professional manner to stay on course. Maybe that's when you have a bit of control, once your foot is in the door.

[geo]

Everyone is making good points on both sides of this thread...I think the reason an artist decides to write is the deciding factor. It's a personal decision. I write cause I got something to say. I still listen to the advice given on the boards and use that and the critiques to better my songwriting, I explore different genres and methods (modes for instance )... not to better write a song "ala" artist XYZ.... but to write a better song that artist XYZ is dying to do ... not because it sounds just like his last hit... because it's a great song... period. No one is a better songwriter based on the fact they do or do not write songs based on specific listings etc. For some it might be easier to do it one way, for another it's not. And just because you don't write for a specific listing doesn't mean you don't have direction or an aim.... it just means yours is different that's all... Geo

[jh]

Quote:To me, it's been about discussing the guy's information in the book, and his views or opinions. Yup, but this is a little bit like discussing about a cd that no-one has listened to.Nothing wrong with that, but maybe it would be a good idea to read the book first. - JH

[geo]

Quote:No perspective is wrong, and this is why I agree with every person's contribution to the thread. Whatever we believe about how things in the music biz work, colors our perception so much, that we are more willing to argue how things should be, based on our own experiences, than what is actually going on. Things are changing...Does anyone climb Mt Everest alone?I think Michael and Taxi are INCREDIBLY important. Because without the confidence of knowing you have a GREAT song on your hands and/or access to friends in REALLY high places, we get nowhere. Taxi is absolutely the best way I've seen, to learn, grow and place any kind of music. but that's just my opinion... You are most wise Sensei... Geo

[ciskokidd]

I hear what you are saying Steve, but I think it becomes pointless to keep philosophising on things such as:"why is there so much crap on the radio""my songs are hits, why don't they get forwarded""it's all luck and who you know"To me these arguments are all self-defeating. I am just as guilty of making comments on how bad I think Nickleback is, but they are resonating with millions of people so I'm not about to sit here on my pedastal and say, "well I just won't steep to writing a song ala Nickleback" If the listing calls for songs ala Nickleback and I want to take a shot at it, then you best believe I am going to write a song that meets to requirements.To me it's not about pouncing, but more to add to the discussion what my experiences have been.Respectfully,CiskoQuote:but Cisco, this thread didn't seem to be about writing with no specific direction...To me, it's been about discussing the guy's information in the book, and his views or opinions. You, Vikki, Matto, Mazz, & Andre are all doing fabulous work. There is no question why, any of you are doing well. I've just been noticing that it seems like people are responding to the thread, by trying to end the discussion, with some kind of slam dunk - "this is the truth, the way I see it," vibe. And there's nothing in the thread to suggest that TAXI is any less than perfectly qualified to help us move up to the next level. So there's no defence of Taxi, or screeners or anything necessary. Why do some of us feel compelled to pounce, as if there is something to pounce on? I'm not separating myself from this group, obviously, I'm as quick to argue as the next guy. Quote:Boy this post has become a lightning rod!To me the proof is in the pudding. I'll respectfully use our good friend Hummingbird as an example.I have seen her music improve 100 fold over a few years. This was accomplished in my opinion by listening with an open mind, taking in the advice of people like Matto and Mazz, and sharpening her aim and abilities toward what the clients are asking for.So there it is, she is writing "for the market" and guess what? The market is responding. She now gets regular forwards, and has signed deals. In time those deals will lead to more and more placements.I guarantee you that if she wrote with no specific direction or aim she would not be where she is now.The key as Matt said is don't use this "HIT" argument as an excuse. Go out and write better and better songs. Aim them at the place you want them to go and the opportunities will arrive.All the best,Cisko

[ggalen]

JH,I bought the book as an online download and have been reading it.Good, solid stuff in there.

[hummingbird]

Quote: I know it's about hard work, but I think luck really plays a major role. Matt, Mazz, Dave and Hummingbird are all examples of great success and hard work, but I'm sure luck did help them a bit....their songs were perfectly on target for tv and film listings.Luck isn't in targetting listings. Targetting listings takes growing an educated ear, listening & understanding the a la's, and using the frame of that style to support your sonic soundscape.Luck is in being lucky enough to have relationships with excellent people who are willing to share their knowledge with you. Then being able to let go of emotional attachment to your work, listen and learn.Luck is being lucky enough to have good friends who help you get to the Road Rally... where you think you might be intimidated by the talent of those around you, but you are inspired. And, further, your attendance at Road Rally's helps you see exactly where you are in your musical development... where you need to get to... and helps you see that you do indeed have the ability to get there.Luck is having a graphic design project fall in your lap that, although it's a pain... exactly pays you the exact amount you need to pay for the custom-built audio computer you've been desparately wishing for. The fact that the first instrumental you write on the new computer with it's new orchestra progam happens to be your first ever on-your-own forward... and ends up being your first ever deal-for-an-instrumental... is that luck or perserverence or the stars aligning. I don't know. but it gives you hope for the future.What you call luck I think I call synchronicity. You walk your path, you remain open, willing to grow, you work, you learn, you enjoy the aliveness of the moments of creative inspiration and you trust it is leading you somewhere. And as you walk your path & find your good friends and do your work... small successes bloom along your path. But they wouldn't come if you didn't water them with determination and receptiveness.H

[ciskokidd]

Hey JH,You are right on there. I did eventually go and check the website read the free chapters, and do actually agree with a good deal of what he is saying.It just seemed to me that some of this thread had veered into "see this author completely agrees with my view of the charts"I think the big picture then gets missed. The author is really saying "write great songs and you will have a much better chance because great songs are needed"That's why TAXI even exists. That's why these clients keep coming here. They want to hear great material. Why would they bother otherwise?Quote:Quote:To me, it's been about discussing the guy's information in the book, and his views or opinions. Yup, but this is a little bit like discussing about a cd that no-one has listened to.Nothing wrong with that, but maybe it would be a good idea to read the book first. - JH